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In this question, I asked how to interpret a historical claim made by Conway regarding the potential, if not ideal, use of the surreal numbers for nonstandard analysis. In the comments and answers it was noted that the surreals are isomorphic to the proper class-sized hyperreals, as shown in this paper by Philip Ehrlich. Sam Sanders then mentioned the following in his answer:

"Transfer is only available for the surreals via isomorphism at class level with the hyperreals (constructed via a limit ultrapower)."

This claim has also been made before, e.g. in this answer by Mikhail Katz:

"Namely, there is no transfer principle in the surreals other than the one transfered from the hyperreals."

The first question is, is this claim to be interpreted in some rigorous way as an absolute truth, e.g. is there some kind of theorem we have showing this? Or does it simply means that nobody knows how to do it otherwise as of 2022?

The second question is, assuming that it is true, we can then ask how strong of a set theory we need to prove that some kind of undefinable surreal transfer principle is even capable of existing to begin with. That is, the surreals exist in many set theories in which the hyperreals do not. We can directly ask, then, how strong of a set theory we need to be able to show something like: for each first-order-definable function $f: \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R$, there exists an extension $\mathbf{f}: \mathbf{No}^n \to \mathbf{No}$ that satisfies every first-order property of the original $f$. If we do this, do we get something equivalent in strength to the ultrafilter lemma? Stronger? Weaker?

(I am never quite sure how to formalize some of these questions from a foundational standpoint, whether we should use NBG or just talk about the surreals below some inaccessible cardinal, so will leave it open.)

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    $\begingroup$ One issue to be careful with here is the fact that the surreal numbers are a one-sorted structure but nonstandard analysis is most naturally considered in terms of a many-sorted structure, containing at least the reals and the powerset of the reals, if not additional iterated powersets beyond that. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 1:30
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    $\begingroup$ In order to ask about transfer properties with the surreals, you need to specify what structure you are using for the powerset sort. There is no clear way to construct this other than using the isomorphism between the surreals and the reals sort of the many-sorted structure used in nonstandard analysis. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 1:33
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    $\begingroup$ Regarding your second question, the existence of a proper elementary extension of $(\mathbb{R}, \mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R}), \in)$ is already independent of $\mathsf{ZF}$. The core point is that the reals as an ordered field are actually a very tame structure, but once you add any of this powerset structure on top it becomes very wild. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 1:35
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    $\begingroup$ Thanks @JamesHanson, these are very good points. It would be nice if there were some kind of "strength heirarchy" that one could see to show how strong these things are. Clearly the first-order theory of the reals with multiplication, addition and equality has proper elementary extensions even in ZF. But if we add the power set of the reals with even only the "element of" operation, things become independent of ZF. And if my understanding is correct, the existence of a nontrivial ultrapower of the reals is strictly stronger than that? $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 4:29
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    $\begingroup$ I think that the existence of such an ultrapower is not actually stronger. Having a proper elementary extension of $(\mathbb{R},\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R}),\in)$ entails that you have a non-principal ultrafilter indexed by $\mathbb{R}$. Conversely, having any non-principal ultrafilter at all will yield a proper elementary extension of $(\mathbb{R},\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R}),\in)$. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 21:43

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