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Consider $n+3$ polynomials of degree $n$, say $P_1(x) , ... P_{n+3}(x)$.

In addition, consider that there are distinct (it is not necessary that all of them be distinct) numbers $x_{ij}$ for $1 \leqslant i < j \leqslant n+3 \quad, \quad(i,j)\neq(1,2)$ such that $P_i(x_{ij})=P_j(x_{ij})$.

The question is :

Is there any (unique) $x_{12}$ such that $P_1(x_{12})=P_2(x_{12})$.

Why I call it generalization of Menelaus?! Consider the case $n=1$.

You will have $4$ line for which you know the $x$ coordinate of the intersection of each pair except one. Writing the condition of co-linearity you may calculate the $x$ coordinate of the last pair.


Update:

It is not true for every $x_{ij}$ but I want to find some (distinct) $x_{ij} \quad (i,j) \neq (1,2)$ such that there is some $x_{12}$ can be determined by other $x_{ij}$

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  • $\begingroup$ I don't understand "there are distinct (it is not necessary that all of them be distinct) numbers". Are they distinct or not? Or do you perhaps mean just to hypothesise that they are not all the same? $\endgroup$
    – LSpice
    Commented Oct 9, 2018 at 10:14
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    $\begingroup$ When $n=1$, there are generically 6 points of intersection between the 4 lines, and you specify 5 of them. In general, there are $n\binom{n+3}{2}$ points of intersection, but you only specify $\binom{n+3}{2} - 1$ of them, so the problem seems very underdetermined. $\endgroup$
    – user126920
    Commented Oct 9, 2018 at 10:59
  • $\begingroup$ @LSpice To be easier, you may assume they all are distinct. But I think it is still true with less assumption $\endgroup$
    – MR_BD
    Commented Oct 9, 2018 at 14:11
  • $\begingroup$ @StanleySnelson Of course there is plenty degree of freedom. And the question is to find some $x_{ij}$ such that there exist $x_{12}$ which is independent of the other parameters. $\endgroup$
    – MR_BD
    Commented Oct 9, 2018 at 14:15
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    $\begingroup$ There will always exist $x_{12}$ such that $P_1(x_{12}) = P_2(x_{12})$ (unless $P_1(x) - P_2(x)$ is a nonzero constant. Is the question to give a formula for $x_{12}$ in terms of the other $x_{ij}$? $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 9, 2018 at 14:17

1 Answer 1

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No, this doesn't work for $n \geq 2$. Roughly, I will show that, for almost any $x_{ij}$, there are $P_i$ with $P_i(x_{ij})=P_j(x_{ij})$. So the $\binom{n+3}{2}-1$ values $x_{ij}$ for $\{ i,j \} \neq \{ 1,2 \}$ don't determine the last one. In order to state this precisely, I need to be careful about degenerate solutions.

If $P$ is any polynomial at all, and I take $P_1=P_2 = \cdots = P_{n+3} = P$, we will of course have $P_i(x) = P_j(x)$ for any $x$. Let's call this a "fully degenerate solution". It also seems natural to exclude solutions where any pair of the $P_i$ are equal. Let's say that a solution is "slightly degenerate" if $P_i = P_j$ for some $i \neq j$. Fix $n \geq 2$. What I will actually show is that, for any $x_{ij}$ at all, there are solutions which are not fully degenerate and, for generic $x_{ij}$, there are solutions which are not even slightly degenerate.

To exclude fully degenerate solutions, we just make a dimension count. The vector space of $(n+3)$-tuples of degree $n$ polynomials has dimension $(n+3)(n+1)$. Imposing $P_i(x_{ij}) = P_j(x_{ij})$ is $\binom{n+3}{2}$ linear conditions. So the space of solutions has dimension $\geq (n+3)(n+1) - \binom{n+3}{2} = \tfrac{n(n+3)}{2}$. The space of fully degenerate solutions is a vector space of dimension $n+1$. For $n \geq 2$, we have $\tfrac{n(n+3)}{2} > n+1$, so there is a solution which is not fully degenerate.

We now prove the claim about slightly degenerate solutions. Let $X$ be the $\binom{n+3}{2}$ dimensional space of possible $x_{ij}$'s. Let $U_{ij} \subset X$ be those $(x_{ij})$ for which there is a solution with $P_i \neq P_j$. Note that we have $X = \bigcup_{i<j} U_{ij}$, and that all the $U_{ij}$ are isomorphic to each other by permuting coordinates.

Let $\overline{U}_{ij}$ be the closure of $U_{ij}$ in the Zariski topology. I claim that $\overline{U}_{ij} = X$ for each $(i,j)$. First of all, since all the $U_{ij}$ are isomorphic to each other by permuting coordinates, they either all have closure $X$ or none of them do. If all of their closures are smaller, then $\dim \overline{U}_{ij} < \dim X$, so we can't have $X = \bigcup_{i<j} U_{ij}$, a contradiction. So $U_{ij}$ is dense in $X$.

Now, $U_{ij}$ is constructible in the Zariski topology, so it contains a dense open subset $V_{ij}$. But then $V:=\bigcap_{i<j} V_{ij}$ is a dense open subset of $X$. By definition, if $(x_{ij}) \in V$ then, for each $(i,j)$, there is a solution with $P_i \neq P_j$. But then the generic solution for such an $(x_{ij})$ must have all the $P_i$ distinct.

Remark When $n=1$, we have $6$ linear equations in $8$ varables, so we generically DO expect the only solutions to be the 2 dimensional space of degenerate ones. Indeed, one can rederive Menelaus theorem by writing down the $6 \times 8$ matrix and setting one of its $6 \times 6$ minors to $0$.


In the above answer, I copied the OP's $n+3$ without thinking about it too much. If we switch to $2n+2$ polynomials instead, there will be a positive result. We can normalize one of the polynomials to be $0$, then the other $2n+1$ polynomials have $(2n+1)(n+1)$ coefficients between them. Imposing equality at all but $x_{12}$ is $\binom{2n+2}{2}-1 = (2n+1)(n+1)-1$ linear conditions. So, generically, there will be a unique solution. Then $x_{12}$ will be determined as one of the $n$ roots of $P_1(x) - P_2(x)$.

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