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Suppose that $\alpha$ is the unique ordinal for which $L_\alpha$ is a model of $\sf ZFC$. In other words, there is no transitive model of $\sf ZFC$ in which there is a transitive model of $\sf ZFC$.

We know, of course, that there are many different models of $\sf ZFC$ of height $\alpha$. Starting with $L_\alpha$ itself, it is a countable model, so we can do a lot of different forcings over it. In fact, also class forcings can be used to extend $L_\alpha$. So we get models which are class-generic extensions, which may not have any set which is set-generic over $L_\alpha$ (e.g. a minimal coding real).

Is it true/consistent that if all transitive models have the same height, then all transitive models are class-generic extensions of $L_\alpha$?

(Yes, I'm including here things like "hyperclass" generic extensions, it's just the question of whether there is some relatively "tame" operation that generates all models from the minimal model; relative constructibility is not tame.)

If the answer is somehow positive, how much can this be pushed up to include other heights of transitive models? Can it include "there are 2/3/infinitely many different heights of transitive models"? What about "every real is in a transitive model"? What about uncountable heights?

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    $\begingroup$ This reminds me of a question I asked a while ago. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 14, 2020 at 22:29
  • $\begingroup$ Seems like a "once in a decade" kind of question, then. :-) $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented Oct 15, 2020 at 15:32
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    $\begingroup$ Asaf, Is there a reason you did not formulate your question as: is every transitive model of set theory of the same height at the minimal model of set theory class generic over the minimal model of set theory? (Here minimal model of set theory is what's commonly referred to as the Shepherdson-Cohen minimal model of set theory). Also, isn't your question closely related to the "Solovay problems" some, but not all variants of which were addressed by Sy Friedman in his article in the Handbook of Set Theory? $\endgroup$
    – Ali Enayat
    Commented Oct 15, 2020 at 17:05
  • $\begingroup$ @Ali: Not really, I didn't really think about it as that. I just wanted to really emphasise the lack of large cardinals or other strong hyptheses. As for "Solovay problems", I don't think I've heard the term before... $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented Oct 15, 2020 at 19:16

1 Answer 1

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I think the following result is related:

Theorem 1(Mack Stanley). Let $L_α$ be a minimal countable standard transitive model of ZFC. There exists a real $x_{nwg}$ having the following three properties:

  1. $x_{nwg}\notin L_α$.

  2. $L_α[x_{nwg}] \models ZFC$.

  3. $x_{nwg}$ is not definably generic over any outer model of $L_α$ that does not already contain $x_{nwg}$.

Indeed Stanley proves something stronger. See his paper

But on the other hand, we have partial positive answers as well. For example see Stanley's paper

What is proved in this paper is simply that some instances of any type of non-constructible object are class generic over $L$. See also the paper ''$^*$forcing'' by Garvin Melles.

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  • $\begingroup$ Did you forget a negation in (1)? $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented Oct 18, 2020 at 8:05
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, thanks for edition. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 19, 2020 at 11:34

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