7
$\begingroup$

In provability logic, $\square X \rightarrow X$ is not a theorem.

In my head[1] this reads as "if X is provable you don't necessarily have a proof of X".

This has lead to the question, what does provable even mean, if not there exists a proof of X? Is there an example of some proposition that is provable but does not have a proof?

Please help

edit: Maybe I didn't make myself clear, $X \rightarrow \square X$ is a theorem in provability logic. This means that $X \not\simeq \square X$. Which means that a proof of X is not equivalent to that proposition being provable, which is very strange to me.

^[1] I come from type theory so I tend to think constructively.

$\endgroup$
4
  • 7
    $\begingroup$ The way $\Box X\to X$ should be read is "if X is provable then X is true". Alternatively, "if we have a proof that X is provable, then we have a proof of X". That such implications fail is a fairly well-established phenomenon in logic. $\endgroup$
    – Wojowu
    Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 12:30
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I think the historical origin of the distinction between "provable" and "proved" is Godel's first incompleteness theorem. Very roughly, this encodes the observation that a consistent formal system F cannot prove the statement "This statement is not provable in F". But the fact that F cannot prove the statement means that the statement is true in some broader sense. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 12:30
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @Wojowu I think you may have it. I was reading propositions as "a proof of", not "is true". This makes a lot more sense. $\endgroup$
    – Glubs
    Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 12:33
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ Another way to see that provability does not imply truth is that the consistency of the system is not provable; i.e., we can't rule out that $X$ and $\neg X$ are both provable, whereas we can certainly rule out that $X$ and $\neg X$ are both true. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 18:31

3 Answers 3

12
$\begingroup$

First note this isn't a constructive logic, so it's wrong to think of "$X$" as "there is a proof of $X$". (Even in constructive logic I find that dubious.)

Second note that if $X$ is provable then $Y \rightarrow X$ is provable for any $Y$. So it's not correct to say that $\square X \rightarrow X$ is not a theorem. The correct statement is that it's a theorem if and only if $X$ is a theorem (assuming your base logic is consistent). So any time you might want to use this implication, because the hypothesis holds, you can in fact use it.

A more interesting statement is that the universal $\forall X : \square X \rightarrow X$ is not a theorem. In other words, we can't prove that any time we prove any statement, that statement is true. This makes it more clear that the issue in question is trust. The formal system does not trust that necessarily every statement it can prove is true.

Another perspective on the statement consists of looking at nonstandard models. Every formal system will have nonstandard models that contain "natural numbers" that, from our perspective, are larger than all actual natural numbers. One of these numbers can encode a "proof" of $X$, from the perspective of the model that, in our world, is infinitely long, and therefore is not a real proof. This can happen even if $X$ is not true.

So in a nonstandard models, there can be statements that are provable in the sense that they have a proof encoded by a number understood by that model but don't have a proof in the sense of an actual finite string of symbols.

$\endgroup$
5
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for, Although I'm curious as to why it's dubious to consider X as meaning "there is a proof of X" in constructive logics. I thought that was the whole point? $\endgroup$
    – Glubs
    Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 12:52
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @Glubs To me it's clearer to think of things in terms of witnesses, where, e.g. a witness of $\forall x\ in X \exists y\in Y$ is a function from $X$ to $Y$. If a proof is a sequence of logical steps then different proofs can produce the same witness. You can also reason by constructive logic about black-box / oracle functions that input $x$ and output $y$ but are not necessarily computable, and in what sense is a black box a proof? $\endgroup$
    – Will Sawin
    Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 13:04
  • $\begingroup$ I agree that in constructive logic this would say nothing about there existing a proof. It would say that from a proof that there is a proof of X, one could construct a proof of X. Maybe this would even be a reasonable principle in the constructive context. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 17:10
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ It may be worth remarking that since the logic is not constructive (and therefore it’s wrong to take $X$ as ‘$X$ is provable’), $X \to \Box X$ is not a theorem either. (Counterexample: Gödel sentences, which may be true in the metatheory, but still not provable.) $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 24, 2022 at 4:35
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ On the other hand, I find the statement that ‘it's not correct to say that $\Box X \to X$ is not a theorem’ a bit pedantic. I took the universal quantifier as implied. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 24, 2022 at 4:37
1
$\begingroup$

There is a subtle point to make between the verificationist notion of proof and the notion of proof captured by $\Box$ in GL Provability Logic.

In GL, $\Box p$ is interpreted to be $Bew(\ulcorner p \urcorner)$, which is an encoding in an arithmetic theory $\mathcal T$ of a proof of $p$ in $\mathcal T$.

Verificationist logics use a broader, slightly nebulous notion of proof, which is not limited to proofs in a theory that can be encoded by that theory. Some verificationists would say that a proof is anything that can be constructively demonstrated according to axioms and/or inference rules. In this way, a verificationist can speak about different orders of mathematical/logical language without having to talk about different provability predicates/operators.

This difference is elucidated by the hallmark result of provability logic, namely Löb’s Theorem: $\Box (\Box p \to p) \to \Box p$. This result amounts to the fact that arithmetic theories are incomplete, which implies that they cannot prove either consistency or soundness. Since $\Box (\Box p \to p)$ is an encoding of a proof of localized soundness w.r.t $p$, we can’t have soundness for the whole system be provable in the system since per Löb, $\Box \bot$ would then be a theorem. However, verificationist notions of proof don’t make reference to a specific proof system, but rather validate what holds for a prover that is capable of always using stronger theories. As such, some reasonable assumptions like “if $p$ is provably provable, then $p$ is provable,” are made. This is clearly a desirable result, especially for a propositional logic in which formulas are interpreted in terms of what a thinking agent can prove, as opposed to what can be encoded by a formal theory.

As a side-note, I prefer to say “$p$ is verified” as opposed to “$p$ is provable” in verificationist contexts.

$\endgroup$
0
$\begingroup$

The issue has indeed arisen in Gödel's incompleteness theorems, and the asymmetry between $P \to \square P$ and $\square P \to P$ is understood by the realization that, while provability is a metatheoretic concept, the internal provability captured by the operator $\square$ is indeed a more stringent concept. It is how the theory itself can perceived the notion of provability, as internalized e.g. by arithmetization of syntax via Gödel numbers. When one internalizes, the reach of what is provable changes.

$P \to \square P$ is a theorem with respect to the notion of external provability, which is the metatheoretic concept which exceeds the notion that can be described only within the theory itself. The fact that $\square P \to P$ is not always (externally) provable reflects the fact that in general the internal provability is a stronger notion than external provability, in the sense that it the set of statements $P$ for which $\square P$ holds is a proper quotient of the original theory where new statements become internally provable that are not externally provable (e.g., a consistent theory can be internally inconsistent).

What this phenomenon shows is that any method for internalizing the metatheoretic notion of provability within the theory itself is not going to capture the exact same notion, unless the original theory is itself inconsistent. This remarks the need to get out of the system to really understand the metatheoretic concepts about the system itself.

$\endgroup$

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .