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$\DeclareMathOperator\SO{SO}\DeclareMathOperator\O{O}\DeclareMathOperator\SU{SU}\DeclareMathOperator\Lift{Lift}$The subgroup of $ \SO(n) $ of signed permutations has order $ n!2^{n-1} $. I will call this group $ W_n $.

I think that $ W_n $ fails to be maximal if and only if $ n=2^k $ is a power of $ 2 $. Indeed it seems to me that $ W_{2^k} $ normalizes a certain extraspecial subgroup $ E \subset \SO(2^k) $ of order $ 2^{2k+1} $. I think the full normalizer of $ E $ is generated by the signed permutations together with tensor products involving $$ \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \\ 1 & -1 \end{bmatrix} $$ Is this true?

Context:

$W_3 \cong S_4$ is isomorphic to the symmetric group on 4 letters and $ W_3 $ is maximal.

$W_2 \cong C_4$ is the cyclic group of order 4. So $ W_2 $ is not maximal.

And for $ W_4 $ we have a chain of strict containments $$ W_4 \subsetneq \Lift(S_4 \times S_4) \subsetneq \SO(4) $$ where $\Lift$ denotes the Lift through the double cover $ \SO(4) \to \SO(3) \times \SO(3) $. So $ W_4 $ is also not maximal.

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    $\begingroup$ By "contains", you mean "contains strictly", right? Finite subgroups are closed. $\endgroup$
    – abx
    Commented Oct 7, 2022 at 19:06
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    $\begingroup$ I added the condition for $W(D_n)$ that we consider only signed permutations of determinant $1$. For your $\operatorname{SU}(n)$ question, you need to pick a maximal torus $T$ (there is no such thing as "the" maximal torus; they are all $\operatorname{SU}(n)$-conjugate, but the choice can matter for intersecting with $\operatorname{SO}(n)$), and a unitary representation of $\operatorname{SO}(n)$. Presumably you mean the diagonal torus, and the representation of $\operatorname{SO}(n)$ corresponding to the quadratic form $q(x) = \sum x_i^2$? $\endgroup$
    – LSpice
    Commented Oct 7, 2022 at 21:09
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    $\begingroup$ Irrelevant nitpick: The Weyl group of type $D_n$ is the group of $(2n) \times (2n)$ signed permutation matrices where the product of the nonzero elements in the matrix is $1$. I believe that this is not isomorphic to the group of signed permutation matrices with determinant $1$. Both groups sit in short exact sequences $1 \to C_2^{n-1} \to G \to S_n \to 1$ (where $C_m$ is the cyclic group of order $m$), but this sequence is right split for $W(D_n)$ and not for your group. Look at the preimages of a transposition; these preimages have order $2$ in $W(D_n)$ and order $4$ in your group. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 3, 2023 at 13:22
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    $\begingroup$ Is it really clear that $W_n$ is a Coxeter group? $W_2 \cong C_4$ is not, but maybe that's exceptional. Also, even if $W_n$ is abstractly a Coxeter group, the given representation is not a reflection group (it contains no reflections). $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 13:03
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    $\begingroup$ I think $SO(8)$ has rotations between integral unit octonions as proper subgroup strictly containing $W_8$. $\endgroup$ Commented May 10 at 13:02

2 Answers 2

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This is more an extended comment than an answer, but it wouldn't fit in the comments section.

There seems to be some confusion in the original question as well as the comments, between the group of monomial (or signed permutation) matrices in $SO(n)$ and the Weyl group. The monomial matrices form a group of shape $2^{n-1}S_n$. The extension does not split for $n$ even, but it has a subgroup of index two that does split, of shape $2^{n-1}A_n$. For the Weyl group, on the other hand, you need to choose a maximal torus, which is a product of $\lfloor\frac{n}{2}\rfloor$ copies of $SO(2)$, and which then pairs up the coordinates. This is why $n$ even and $n$ odd behave differently. The Weyl group of $SO(2n)$ is $D_n$, while the Weyl group of $SO(2n+1)$ is $B_n$.

The full normaliser of your extraspecial group $E$ of order $2^{1+2k}$ in $SO(2^k)$ is a (usually non-split) group of shape $2^{1+2k}O^+_{2k}(2)$, where $O^+_{2k}(2)$ is the appropriate orthogonal group in characteristic two. See Griess, "Automorphisms of extra special groups and nonvanishing degree 2 cohomology", especially Theorem 5. However, this doesn't contain your monomial group for $k$ large, because $2^{2^k-1}.(2^k)!$ grows much more rapidly than the size of this group. This probably means that the "only if" part of your statement is wrong.

Finally, if an appropriate amendment of your statement is true (I haven't checked it), it should be possible to deduce it from Collins, "On finite subgroups of the classical groups" without too much trouble. See also Weisfeiler, "Post-classification version of Jordan's theorem on finite linear groups" for related statements.

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  • $\begingroup$ The main theorem of Shangzhi Li, "The maximality of monomial subgroups of linear groups over division rings" shows that the monomial group is maximal in $SL(n,\mathbb{R})$ for $𝑛\geqslant 3$. But it's unclear how to reduce from that to $SO(n)$. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 15:30
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    $\begingroup$ You can lift the transpositions of $S_n$ to the monomial subgroup of $SO(n)$ by introducing a diagonal $-1$ somewhere, as long as $n > 2$, so the monomial group is generated by involutions, but still it does seem unlikely that it is a Coxeter group. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 19:50
  • $\begingroup$ Actually if $n$ is odd then the monomial group splits. A splitting map is given by sending $\pi$ to $\mathrm{sgn}(\pi) P_\pi$, where $P_\pi$ is the permutation matrix representing $\pi$. So $W_n \cong D_n$ after all if $n$ is odd. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 19:56
  • $\begingroup$ Indeed. So I deleted my incorrect comment above. I hope that doesn't make a nonsense of this thread. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 20:31
  • $\begingroup$ Proof that $W_n = 2^{n-1}S_n$ does not split if $n$ is even: there is no way to lift an $n$-cycle to an element of order $n$. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 5, 2023 at 9:56
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An example rotation matrix between integral octonions is this matrix:

$$\frac{1}{2}\begin{bmatrix}1 & 1 &1&0&1&0&0&0\\ -1&1&1&0&-1&0&0&0\\ -1&-1&1&0&1&0&0&0\\ 0&0&0&1&0&1&-1&1\\ -1&1&-1&0&1&0&0&0\\ 0&0&0&-1&0&1&1&1\\ 0&0&0&1&0&-1&1&1\\ 0&0&0&-1&0&-1&-1&1\end{bmatrix}$$

Because we also allow any permutation, one choice of the (half-)integral octonions is not invariant under the entire rotation group. The union of all $7$ variants of (half-)integral octonions is: if you take any set with $4$ distinct basis octonions, their sum times $0.5$ appears in one of the $7$ integral octonion algebras.

Edit: Unfortunately this idea of me doesn't work. By conjugating with a permutation you can get a multiplication map for unit integral octonions from each of the seven integral octonion algebra's. Since that is not a multiplicatively closed set, we will obtain all multiplications with unit octonions.

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  • $\begingroup$ Actually I don't think the group generated by these matrices will be a proper subgroup of $SO(8)$, because we have to use all 7 versions of integral octonions. $\endgroup$ Commented May 11 at 11:19
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    $\begingroup$ Up to renormalising and reordering rows/columns you have the direct sum of two Hadamard matrices. It seems likely that the stabiliser of this matrix in the monomial group would respect this direct sum structure, and the automorphism group of each summand (as a Hadamard matrix) projects onto $S_4$. So it's likely that the permutation quotient is a wreath product $S_4 \wr S_2$ (which is maximal in $S_8$). It's known that no larger Hadamard matrix has such a highly transitive automorphism group. $\endgroup$ Commented May 11 at 15:44

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