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The dihedral group $D_{16}$ of order 16 has a presentation $D_{16}= \langle a,t \ | \ a^2=t^8=atat=e\rangle$.

Question: Does there exist a finite 2-group $G$ containing $D_{16}$ as a subgroup, and an element $g \in G$ such that $gag^{-1}=t^4$? Bonus pats-on-the-back if $G$ has order 64.

An obvious reduction: one can assume that $G =\langle D_{16},g\rangle$.

An obvious constraint: $D_{16}$ cannot be normal in $G$ (so $G$ can't have order 32).

[This question has come up in investigations of the Balmer spectrum of $G$-equivariant stable homotopy for finite $p$-groups $G$. Like Dr. Frankenstein, I am looking for interesting subjects to experiment on, and my student Chris Lloyd is serving as the able assistant to the mad scientist.]

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  • $\begingroup$ @ToddTrimble My comment in brackets in my original question was a link to algebraic topology. This is a problem about how finite p-groups, and their subgroups, interact with Morava K-theories, which are generalized homology theories. The existing literature focuses on abelian groups, but Lloyd and I now understand the problem for the dihedral group of order 8. This question, and a follow-up one that I posted after this one was so nicely answered, were related to understanding unusual aspects of a conjectural answer, as a help with choosing new non-abelian p-groups to study next. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2019 at 3:32
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks, Nicholas: you did indeed explain the connection; not sure why I missed that. I'll add the a-t tag back in, and I think you should feel free to rollback to the previous version, but maybe it doesn't matter too much after Derek's answer. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 4, 2019 at 5:05

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No. We can prove this by induction. Let $G$ be the smallest $2$-group in which this situation occurs. Then $G$ has a normal central subgroup $N$ of order $2$.

If $N$ has trivial intersection with the subgroup $\langle a,t \rangle = D_{16}$, then the same situation occurs in $G/N$, contradicting the minimality of $G$.

So that intersection must be nontrivial, and hence $N \le \langle a,t \rangle$, and then we must have $N = Z(\langle a,t \rangle) = \langle t^4 \rangle$.

But then $t^4 \in Z(G)$, contradicting the assumption that it is conjugate in $G$ to $a$.

The situation you describe can occur in finite groups, such as in simple groups ${\rm PSL}(2,q)$ for prime powers $q$ with $q \equiv 15$ or $17 \bmod 32$, ($q=17$ for example), but not in finite $2$-groups.

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    $\begingroup$ Thanks for the friendly proof! I really have a more general question of the form "Can this happen?" and this question here was my attempt to find an example. If I can't easily resolve my general question with arguments in the style of what you did, I'll be back with more! $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 27, 2019 at 23:44
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    $\begingroup$ Also thanks for the composite order group example! $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 28, 2019 at 0:38
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    $\begingroup$ The question, and Derek's elegant answer and example me wonder whether it is possible to give a reasonable answer to "Which 2-groups S can be embedded in a finite group G with one conjugacy class of involutions?" More ambitiously, one might try to insist that $G$ be solvable. I think these are different questions ( or give different answers anyway): I think a semidihedral $2$-group of order 16 embeds in $M_{11}$ which has one class of involutions, but not in any finite solvable group with one class of involutions. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 28, 2019 at 11:22
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    $\begingroup$ @Geoff: If I recall correctly, Thompson has proved that a solvable group with one class of involutions has $2$-length one. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 28, 2019 at 12:40
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    $\begingroup$ Without putting any constraint on the finite group, problems like this can always be solved. If $G$ is any finite group, and $G\rightarrow S$ is the embedding of $G$ into the group of all permutations of the set $G$, then any isomorphism between subgroups of $G$ is a conjugation inside $S$. I'm not sure whether $S_{16}$ is simpler than Derek's $PSL(2,15)$ as a non 2-group solution to the original question. This doesn't help with Geoff's question. $\endgroup$
    – IJL
    Commented Jul 2, 2019 at 9:12

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