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Motivation: Many "weak" arithmetic functions and/or relations ("relations" for short) are equivalent with relations explicitly definable by relations which were recursively defined by them beforehand (let's call these "explictly re-definable"). I wonder whether this is so for all relations or whether and why e.g. addition is not explicitly re-definable by multiplication (and what this means).

Definition 1: A relation $f$ is recursively weaker than $g$ when $g$ is recursively definable by $f$ (see picture below, left): $f \leq_{\mathsf{rec}} g$

Definition 2: A relation $f$ is explicitly weaker than $g$ when $f$ is explicitly re-definable by $g$ (see picture below, right): $f \leq_{\mathsf{exp}} g$

Note that both relations are transitive.

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Recursive definitions (left) and explicit re-definitions (right)1:

$$\begin{array}{llll} \small{(1)} &\small{n < n'} &\small{(6)} & \small{m = n' \Leftrightarrow n < m \wedge \neg(\exists x)\ n < x < m} \\ &\small{n < m \Rightarrow n < m'} & \small{(7)}& \small{m = n' \Leftrightarrow m = n + 1} \\ \small{(2)} &\small{n + 0 = 0} & \small{(8)}& \small{n < m \Leftrightarrow (\exists x \neq 0)\ n + x = m} \\ &\small{n + m' = (n+m)'} & \small{(9)}& \small{n < m \Leftrightarrow n \operatorname{mod} m = n } \\ \small{(3)} &\small{n \operatorname{div} n} &\small{(10)} & \small{n \operatorname{div} m \Leftrightarrow m \operatorname{mod} n = 0} \\ &\small{n \operatorname{div} m \Rightarrow n \operatorname{div} (m + n)} & \small{(11)}& \small{n \operatorname{div} m \Leftrightarrow (\exists x)\ n \times x = m} \\ \small{(4)} &\small{0 \operatorname{mod} n = 0} & & \\ &\small{(m \operatorname{mod} n)' = m \Rightarrow m' \operatorname{mod} n = 0} & & \\ &\small{(m \operatorname{mod} n)' \neq m \Rightarrow m' \operatorname{mod} n = (m \operatorname{mod} n)'} & & \\ \small{(5)} &\small{n \times 0 = 0} & & \\ &\small{n \times (m + 1) = (n \times m) + n } & & \\ \end{array}$$

There are some missing links in the picture, esp. there seems to be no obvious explicit re-definition of

  • $\operatorname{succ}$ by $\times$

  • $\operatorname{mod}$ by $\times$

  • $+$ by $\times$

  • $+$ by $\operatorname{mod}$

  • $+$ by $\operatorname{div}$

(at least not obvious to me).

In the case of $+$ and $\times$ I doubt that there will be a explicit re-definition. Look how and why $+$ has to be defined recursively by $\operatorname{succ}$. It's because you cannot capture the following (only seemingly explicit) naive definition otherwise:

$$n + m = k \Leftrightarrow \operatorname{succ}^n(\operatorname{succ}^m(0)) = \operatorname{succ}^k(0)$$

Trying to re-define $+$ by $\times$ explicitly you will probably come up with

$$n + m = k \Leftrightarrow \operatorname{double}^n(\operatorname{double}^m(1)) = \operatorname{double}^k(1)$$

with $\operatorname{double}(n) = n \times 2$. (Compare this with $\operatorname{succ}(n) = n +1$.)

But this is not a proof that it is impossible to re-define $+$ by $\times$ (or by $\operatorname{mod}$ maybe).

So I am looking either

for an explicit re-definition of $+$ by $\times$ (or by $\operatorname{mod}$)

or

for a proof that no such re-definition can exist.


[ADDENDUM] In the light of Joel's and Andreas' answer: Is it obvious that $\times$ cannot re-define the weaker relations $<$ and $\operatorname{succ}$ (both re-definable by $+$), neither?


1 We write $n'$ for $\operatorname{succ}(n)$. Note that in (4) $n \neq 0$ is assumed.

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    $\begingroup$ I'm not sure I understand your question, but could you clarify it in connection with the observation that $+$ is not definable in the structure $\langle\mathbb{N},\cdot\rangle$? This is because the latter structure has many automorphism (permute the primes and extend) that do not respect $+$. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 15:23
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    $\begingroup$ and I see now that Andreas has added an answer with that observation at just the same time.... $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 15:24
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks, Joel. The problem was that I actually did not make the observation. Now that I have done, I see much clearer. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 15:30
  • $\begingroup$ By the way: is the rest of my exposition correct, so far? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 15:34
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    $\begingroup$ It is a good exercise to prove that if one relation is definable in a structure from another, then it would have to be invariant under all automorphisms of the structure. From this, it follows that if an operation is not invariant by an automorphism of a structure, then it cannot be definable in that structure. Thus, neither addition $+$ nor $<$ nor successor nor mod are definable from multiplication in $\mathbb{N}$, since they are not invariant by all the automorphisms of $\langle\mathbb{N},\cdot\rangle$ induced by permuting the primes. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 16:15

1 Answer 1

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The set of natural numbers, when equipped with just the operation of multiplication, has lots of automorphisms, induced by arbitrary permutations of the primes. These generally don't preserve addition. So it is not possible to define addition from only multiplication.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thank you! I didn't think about the problem in terms of automorphisms. But obviously that's the right perspective. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2014 at 15:25
  • $\begingroup$ Are those automorphisms something "everybody" should know - or is it somehow advanced knowledge? Googling for "permutation(s) of (the) primes" yields very little results. Do you have a reference, eventually? Thanks in advance. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 20, 2014 at 6:07
  • $\begingroup$ @HansStricker The existence of those automorphisms is essentially the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, that every natural number admits a unique factorization into primes. So, for multiplicative purposes, all the information about a natural number $n$ is in the exponents $e_2,e_3,e_5,\dots$ of the primes $2,3,5,\dots$ in the factorization of $n$. Multiplying numbers amounts to adding corresponding exponents. From this viewpoint, it's obvious that permuting the primes amounts to just listing the exponents in a different order and doesn't affect the structure. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 20, 2014 at 6:23

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