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Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic (with the standard semantics!), in which arbitrary (setset-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneoushomogeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ (defined here), each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing. The characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, seem to require more than $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, but that logic is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic (with the standard semantics!), in which arbitrary (set-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic (with the standard semantics!), in which arbitrary set-sized Boolean combinations and homogeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ (defined here), each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations. The characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question) seem to require more than $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, but that logic is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

Notice added Draw attention by Noah Schweber
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Noah Schweber
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Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic (with the standard semantics!), in which arbitrary (set-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic, in which arbitrary (set-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic (with the standard semantics!), in which arbitrary (set-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.

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Noah Schweber
  • 20.7k
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  • 332

Can "$\exists\mathcal{X}(R\cong C(\mathcal{X}))$" be expressed in "large" infinitary second-order logic?

Originally asked and bountied at MSE without success:

Say that a ring $R$ is spatial iff there is some topological space $\mathcal{X}$ such that $R\cong C(\mathcal{X})$, where $C(\mathcal{X})$ is the ring of continuous functions from $\mathcal{X}$ to $\mathbb{R}$.

My question is:

Is spatiality definable in $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$?

Here $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is the "large" infinitary version of second-order logic, in which arbitrary (set-sized) Boolean combinations and homongeneous blocks of quantifiers are allowed. This is an incredibly powerful logic - already in $\mathsf{FOL}_{\infty,\infty}$, each structure is characterized by a single sentence - but it still has limitations, and the existing characterizations of spatiality I'm aware of seem to require more (see Eric Wofsey's answer to the above-linked question). On the other hand, $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ is strong enough that I have no idea how to begin attacking a negative answer.

I've focused on $\mathsf{SOL}_{\infty,\infty}$ since - for me at least - it seems a plausible upper bound on what could count as an "algebraic" characterization of something.