Skip to main content
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Bumped by Community user
Notice removed Draw attention by CommunityBot
Bounty Ended with no winning answer by CommunityBot
Notice added Draw attention by Alexander Pruss
Bounty Started worth 200 reputation by Alexander Pruss
Notice removed Draw attention by CommunityBot
Bounty Ended with no winning answer by CommunityBot
added 10 characters in body
Source Link

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is $G$-invariance: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

Question: Is there a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence condition that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates".

(If we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Comment: I was asked if there are $G$-invariant $\mu$ that don't satisfy independence. Yes. Start by noting that there is no $G$-invariant $\mu$ that is also invariant under the permutations of $\omega$ (acting by composition--I will write this action on the right). In fact, for any $G$-invariant $\mu$ on $G$ and infinite $A\subseteq \omega$ there will be a permutation $\tau$ fixing $\omega-A$ and a subset $C$ of $G$ depending only on the coordinates in $A$ such that $\mu(C)\ne\mu(C\tau)$.

Now, fix any $G$-invariant $\mu$, and let $A$ and $B$ be infinite disjoint subsets of $\omega$. It's easy to now show that there is a $G$-invariant $\nu$ (formed by combining $\mu$ with two permutations) and subsets $C$ and $D$ of $G$ depending on the coordinates in $A$ and $B$ respectively such that $\nu(C)\ne \mu(C)$ and $\nu(D) \ne \mu(D)$. Suppose $\mu$ and $\nu$ satisfy the independence condition. Replacing $C$ and/or $D$ with its complement as needed, assume $\nu(C)>\mu(C)$ and $\nu(D)>\mu(D)$. Let $\rho=(1/2)(\mu+\nu)$. Then $\rho$ is $G$-invariant but $\rho(C\cap D) > \rho(C)\rho(D)$, so $\rho$ does not satisfy the independence condition.

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is $G$-invariance: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

Question: Is there a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence condition that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates".

(If we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Comment: I was asked if there are $G$-invariant $\mu$ that don't satisfy independence. Yes. Start by noting that there is no $G$-invariant $\mu$ that is also invariant under the permutations of $\omega$ (acting by composition--I will write this action on the right). In fact, for any $G$-invariant $\mu$ on $G$ and infinite $A\subseteq \omega$ there will be a permutation $\tau$ fixing $\omega-A$ and a subset $C$ of $G$ depending only on the coordinates in $A$ such that $\mu(C)\ne\mu(C\tau)$.

Now, fix any $G$-invariant $\mu$, and let $A$ and $B$ be infinite disjoint subsets of $\omega$. It's easy to now show that there is a $G$-invariant $\nu$ (formed by combining $\mu$ with two permutations) and subsets $C$ and $D$ of $G$ depending on the coordinates in $A$ and $B$ respectively such that $\nu(C)\ne \mu(C)$ and $\nu(D) \ne \mu(D)$. Suppose $\mu$ and $\nu$ satisfy the independence condition. Replacing $C$ and/or $D$ with its complement, assume $\nu(C)>\mu(C)$ and $\nu(D)>\mu(D)$. Let $\rho=(1/2)(\mu+\nu)$. Then $\rho$ is $G$-invariant but $\rho(C\cap D) > \rho(C)\rho(D)$, so $\rho$ does not satisfy the independence condition.

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is $G$-invariance: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

Question: Is there a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence condition that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates".

(If we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Comment: I was asked if there are $G$-invariant $\mu$ that don't satisfy independence. Yes. Start by noting that there is no $G$-invariant $\mu$ that is also invariant under the permutations of $\omega$ (acting by composition--I will write this action on the right). In fact, for any $G$-invariant $\mu$ on $G$ and infinite $A\subseteq \omega$ there will be a permutation $\tau$ fixing $\omega-A$ and a subset $C$ of $G$ depending only on the coordinates in $A$ such that $\mu(C)\ne\mu(C\tau)$.

Now, fix any $G$-invariant $\mu$, and let $A$ and $B$ be infinite disjoint subsets of $\omega$. It's easy to now show that there is a $G$-invariant $\nu$ (formed by combining $\mu$ with two permutations) and subsets $C$ and $D$ of $G$ depending on the coordinates in $A$ and $B$ respectively such that $\nu(C)\ne \mu(C)$ and $\nu(D) \ne \mu(D)$. Suppose $\mu$ and $\nu$ satisfy the independence condition. Replacing $C$ and/or $D$ with its complement as needed, assume $\nu(C)>\mu(C)$ and $\nu(D)>\mu(D)$. Let $\rho=(1/2)(\mu+\nu)$. Then $\rho$ is $G$-invariant but $\rho(C\cap D) > \rho(C)\rho(D)$, so $\rho$ does not satisfy the independence condition.

Notice added Draw attention by Alexander Pruss
Bounty Started worth 100 reputation by Alexander Pruss
Notice removed Draw attention by CommunityBot
Bounty Ended with no winning answer by CommunityBot
Notice added Draw attention by Alexander Pruss
Bounty Started worth 50 reputation by Alexander Pruss
added 1156 characters in body
Source Link

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is invariance under addition$G$-invariance: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

I am wondering ifQuestion: Is there is a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence constraintindependence condition that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates".   

(I.e., ifIf we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Comment: I was asked if there are $G$-invariant $\mu$ that don't satisfy independence. Yes. Start by noting that there is no $G$-invariant $\mu$ that is also invariant under the permutations of $\omega$ (acting by composition--I will write this action on the right). In fact, for any $G$-invariant $\mu$ on $G$ and infinite $A\subseteq \omega$ there will be a permutation $\tau$ fixing $\omega-A$ and a subset $C$ of $G$ depending only on the coordinates in $A$ such that $\mu(C)\ne\mu(C\tau)$.

Now, fix any $G$-invariant $\mu$, and let $A$ and $B$ be infinite disjoint subsets of $\omega$. It's easy to now show that there is a $G$-invariant $\nu$ (formed by combining $\mu$ with two permutations) and subsets $C$ and $D$ of $G$ depending on the coordinates in $A$ and $B$ respectively such that $\nu(C)\ne \mu(C)$ and $\nu(D) \ne \mu(D)$. Suppose $\mu$ and $\nu$ satisfy the independence condition. Replacing $C$ and/or $D$ with its complement, assume $\nu(C)>\mu(C)$ and $\nu(D)>\mu(D)$. Let $\rho=(1/2)(\mu+\nu)$. Then $\rho$ is $G$-invariant but $\rho(C\cap D) > \rho(C)\rho(D)$, so $\rho$ does not satisfy the independence condition.

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is invariance under addition: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

I am wondering if there is a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence constraint that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates".  (I.e., if we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is $G$-invariance: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

Question: Is there a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence condition that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates". 

(If we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)

Comment: I was asked if there are $G$-invariant $\mu$ that don't satisfy independence. Yes. Start by noting that there is no $G$-invariant $\mu$ that is also invariant under the permutations of $\omega$ (acting by composition--I will write this action on the right). In fact, for any $G$-invariant $\mu$ on $G$ and infinite $A\subseteq \omega$ there will be a permutation $\tau$ fixing $\omega-A$ and a subset $C$ of $G$ depending only on the coordinates in $A$ such that $\mu(C)\ne\mu(C\tau)$.

Now, fix any $G$-invariant $\mu$, and let $A$ and $B$ be infinite disjoint subsets of $\omega$. It's easy to now show that there is a $G$-invariant $\nu$ (formed by combining $\mu$ with two permutations) and subsets $C$ and $D$ of $G$ depending on the coordinates in $A$ and $B$ respectively such that $\nu(C)\ne \mu(C)$ and $\nu(D) \ne \mu(D)$. Suppose $\mu$ and $\nu$ satisfy the independence condition. Replacing $C$ and/or $D$ with its complement, assume $\nu(C)>\mu(C)$ and $\nu(D)>\mu(D)$. Let $\rho=(1/2)(\mu+\nu)$. Then $\rho$ is $G$-invariant but $\rho(C\cap D) > \rho(C)\rho(D)$, so $\rho$ does not satisfy the independence condition.

Source Link

Finitely additive measures on $\mathbb Z_2^\omega$ with invariance and independence constraints

Let $G = \mathbb Z_2^\omega$, with pointwise addition. Assume the Axiom of Choice. I am interested in finitely additive probability measures $\mu$ defined on all of $\mathcal PG$ that can be intuitively thought to represent an infinite sequence of independent fair coin tosses.

One condition I want is invariance under addition: $\mu(A)=\mu(\alpha+A)$ for $\alpha\in G$ and $A\subseteq G$. Since $G$ is abelian, there is an invariant measure on $\mathcal PG$.

I am wondering if there is a finitely additive invariant $\mu$ also subject to the independence constraint that $\mu(A\cap B)=\mu(A)\mu(B)$ whenever $A$ and $B$ "depend on different coordinates". (I.e., if we let $\pi_J : G\to \mathbb Z_2^J$ be the projection for $J\subseteq \omega$ given by $\pi_J(\alpha)=\alpha|_J$, then $A$ and $B$ depend on different coordinates iff we can write $A=\pi_J^{-1}[A']$ and $B=\pi_K^{-1}[B']$ for some disjoint $J$ and $K$.)