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I am looking for a reference to the fact that $\mathbb{Z}$ is conservatively embedded into the field $\mathbb{C}$ of complex numbers, that is anything in $\mathbb{Z}$ which is definable in $(\mathbb{C},\mathbb{Z},+,\times)$ is already definable in $(\mathbb{Z},+,\times)$.

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  • $\begingroup$ Would this follow from the fact that the integers were already fixed pointwise by all the automorphisms of $\Bbb C$, so the predicate is also fixed? $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented yesterday
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    $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila This does not follow. E.g., consider the same argument with $\mathbb R$ in place of $\mathbb C$. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
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    $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila I wrote $\mathbb R$ in place of $\mathbb C$, not $\mathbb R$ in place of $\mathbb Z$. Every automorphism of $\mathbb R$ fixes $\mathbb Z$, but it is certainly not true that all subsets of $\mathbb Z$ definable in $(\mathbb R,\mathbb Z,+,\cdot)$ are definable in $(\mathbb Z,+,\cdot)$, as $(\mathbb R,\mathbb Z,+,\cdot)$ is biinterpretable with the second-order arithmetic $(\mathcal P(\mathbb Z),\mathbb Z,+,\cdot,\in)$ (while keeping the $\mathbb Z$ part absolute). $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
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    $\begingroup$ Your first comment does not mention any such additional properties, but anyway, $(\mathbb C,\mathbb Z,+,\cdot)$ is neither categorical nor even slightly saturated, so I don't see how this would be relevant. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday
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    $\begingroup$ Oh, if you meant to treat the structure as two-sorted and eliminating quantifiers from the $\mathbb C$ sort while keeping quantifiers over $\mathbb Z$, then yes, that would of course solve the problem, but this is basically just restating (a generalization of) the question. $\endgroup$ Commented yesterday

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I don't know a reference, but here's a (slightly overkill) proof:

It's known that $(\mathbb{Z};+,\times)$ interprets an algebraically closed field $K$ of infinite transcendence degree and characteristic zero, and it's not hard to show that additionally the inclusion $\mathbb{Z}\hookrightarrow K$ is also definable in $(\mathbb{Z};+,\times)$. This means that for every logic $\mathcal{L}$ which is at least as strong as first-order logic, every $\mathcal{L}$-definable set of integers in $(K;\mathbb{Z},+,\times)$ is already $\mathcal{L}$-definable in $(\mathbb{Z};+,\times)$. But $(K;\mathbb{Z},+,\times)\equiv_{\infty,\omega}(\mathbb{C};\mathbb{Z},+,\times)$ since e.g. they become isomorphic after forcing with $Col(\omega,2^{\omega})$. Consequently, letting $\mathit{Def}_\mathcal{L}(\mathfrak{M})$ be the set of relations on the structure $\mathfrak{M}$ which are definable in the logic $\mathcal{L}$ and letting $\mathit{Def}_\mathcal{L}^A(\mathfrak{M})$ be the subset of the above consisting of relations contained in a finite power of $A\subseteq\mathfrak{M}$, we have:

If $\mathcal{L}$ is a logic between $\mathsf{FOL}$ and $\mathcal{L}_{\infty,\omega}$, then $$\mathit{Def}_\mathcal{L}^\mathbb{Z}(\mathbb{C};\mathbb{Z},+,\times)=\mathit{Def}_\mathcal{L}(\mathbb{Z};+,\times).$$

In particular, taking $\mathcal{L}=\mathsf{FOL}$ answers the question.

This is a bit overkill though! (That said, it's interesting to note that in $\mathsf{ZF+AD}$ there is a subset of $\mathbb{Z}$ which is second-order-definable over $(\mathbb{C};\mathbb{Z},+,\times)$ but is not second-order-definable over $(\mathbb{Z};+,\times)$: using $\mathsf{AD}$ we get a second-order definition of $\mathbb{R}$ in $(\mathbb{C};+,\times)$, and from there we can define the set of integers coding the full second-order theory of $(\mathbb{Z};+,\times)$, at which point we invoke Tarski.)


Here's a possibly interesting follow-up question which tests the idea that this is in fact "tricky to prove:"

Replace $+$ and $\times$ with their relational versions $+_R$ and $\times_R$ (e.g. $+_R=\{(a,b,c)\in\mathbb{C}^3: a+b=c\}$). In the resulting language, consider the substructure with underlying set $X=\{2^n:n\in\mathbb{N}\}$ of $\mathbb{C}$. Every element of $X$ is definable in $\mathbb{C}$ so the way it sits inside $\mathbb{C}$ seems plausibly as tame as that for $\mathbb{Z}$. But the interpretation argument above doesn't work since $X$ is "informationally" just $(\mathbb{N};+)$.

Is there a definable relation on $(\mathbb{C};X,+_R,\times_R)$ which lives on $X$ (= is contained in some finite power of $X$) but is not definable in $(X;+_R,\times_R)$ (which is of course just $(X;\times_R)$)?

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    $\begingroup$ Wow, this is very nice! $\endgroup$ Commented 21 hours ago
  • $\begingroup$ @JoelDavidHamkins Thanks! The intuition is basically the same as in this old answer of mine. $\endgroup$ Commented 21 hours ago
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    $\begingroup$ @JoelDavidHamkins I've added a follow-up question you might find interesting. $\endgroup$ Commented 21 hours ago

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