10
$\begingroup$

Let $\Gamma$ be a group and $\Gamma_1\supset\Gamma_2\supset\dots$ subgroups of finite index, such that $\bigcap_{j=1}^\infty \Gamma_j=\{1\}$. Let $1\ne\gamma\in\Gamma$ and let $[\gamma]=[\gamma]_\Gamma$ denote the conjugacy class of $\gamma$ in $\Gamma$. Is it true that there exists $n\in\mathbb N$ such that $[\gamma]\cap\Gamma_n=\emptyset$? This is the case, if every $\Gamma_n$ is normal in $\Gamma$, but what about the general case?

If it is not true, are there non-trivial estimates of the number of $\Gamma_n$ conjugacy classes within $[\gamma]$? More precisely, let $c_n$ denote the cardinatlity of the set $\big([\gamma]\cap\Gamma_n\big)/\Gamma_n$, where $\Gamma_n$ acts by conjugation. Does $\frac{c_n}{[\Gamma:\Gamma_n]}$ tend to zero?

If any of this does not hold in general, are there interesting classes of groups, for which it holds?

$\endgroup$
3
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @DerekHolt But those subgroups don't have finite index $\endgroup$ Oct 2 at 11:42
  • $\begingroup$ @SeanEberhard Yes sorry! $\endgroup$
    – Derek Holt
    Oct 2 at 12:49
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, right, I corrected this. $\endgroup$
    – Echo
    Oct 2 at 13:01

2 Answers 2

11
$\begingroup$

Here is a counterexample, with the Heisenberg group. Define by induction $a_0=1$ and $a_{n+1}=(a_n^2+1)a_n$. Clearly $a_n$ tends to infinity.

Let $\Gamma$ be the Heisenberg group, consisting of matrices $m(x,y,z)=\begin{pmatrix}1&x&z\\ 0&1&y\\0&0&1\end{pmatrix}$ with $x,y,z\in\mathbf{Z}^3$. Let $C_n$ be the $n$-th congruence subgroup, namely those $m(x,y,z)$ with $x,y,z\in n\mathbf{Z}$.

Let $\Gamma_n$ be the subgroup generated by the congruence subgroup $C_{a_n^2}$ and $m_n=m(1,0,a_n)$.

First check: $\Gamma_{n+1}\subset\Gamma_n$. Indeed $C_{a_{n+1}^2}\subset C_{a_n}\subset\Gamma_n$ because $a_n$ divides $a_{n+1}$. So it remains to check $m_{n+1}\in\Gamma_n$. Indeed, $m_n^{a_n^2+1}=m(a_n+1,0,a_n(a_n^2+1))=m(a_n,0,0)m_{n+1}$. Since $m(a_n,0,0)\in C_{a_n}$, we deduce $m_{n+1}\in\Gamma_n$.

Second check: $\bigcap_n\Gamma_n=\{m(0,0,0)\}$. Indeed, consider a nontrivial element $m(x,y,z)$. Choose $n$ such that $a_n$ is greater than $|x|,|y|,|z|$. Let us show that $m(x,y,z)\notin \Gamma_n$. Otherwise, it can be written as $m_n^km(aa_n^2,ba_n^2,ca_n^2)$, hence as $m(k+aa_n^2,ba_n^2,(ca_n+kba_n+k)a_n)$. Since the three coefficients are $<a_n$ in absolute value, we first deduce that $b=0$ so it equals $m(k+aa_n^2,0,(ca_n+k)a_n)$, then $k=-ca_n$, so it equals $m(a_n(aa_n-c),0,0)$, and finally it equals $m(0,0,0)$.

Finally, $m_n\in\Gamma_n$ is conjugate to the fixed element $m(1,0,0)$.

$\endgroup$
4
  • $\begingroup$ I'm missing something dumb. You write that $m(1,a_n,0)$ is conjugate to $m(1,0,0)$. But there is a quotient map $\Gamma \to \mathbb{Z}^2$ sending $m(x,y,z) \mapsto (x,y)$, and $(1,0)$ is not conjugate to $(1, a_n)$ in $\mathbb{Z}^2$. $\endgroup$ Oct 2 at 15:41
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @DavidESpeyer I believe $m(1,a_n,0)$ should be $m(1,0,a_n)$. Also $m_n^{a_n^2+1} = m(a_n^2+1, 0, a_n (a_n^2+1))$. $\endgroup$ Oct 2 at 15:58
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks for noticing: indeed it's $m_n=m(1,0,a_n)$, that is, $\begin{pmatrix}1 & 1 & a_n\\ 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}$. Now fixed. $\endgroup$
    – YCor
    Oct 2 at 16:24
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ No problem, nice example. Now that I understand it, here is a variant that seems nice to me: Let $c$ be an irrational $p$-adic integer. Let $\Gamma_n = \{ m(x,y,z) : z \equiv c x \bmod p^n,\ y \equiv 0 \bmod p^n \}$. Then $\bigcap \Gamma_n$ is trivial but, if $c_n$ is an integer congruent to $c \bmod p^n$, then $m(1,0,c_n)$ is in $\Gamma_n$ and is $\Gamma$-conjugate to $m(1,0,0)$. $\endgroup$ Oct 2 at 16:37
12
$\begingroup$

YCor beat me to it, but I will post my answer anyway because it is rather different. I will construct a counterexample to the first question with $\Gamma = F_2 = F\{x,y\}$, the free group on two generators.

Lemma: Let $w \in F_2$ be a nontrivial word. Let $M_n$ be the set of surjective homomorphisms $f:F_2 \to A_n$ such that $1\notin \operatorname{Fix}(f(w))$ and $\operatorname{Fix}(f(x)) \ne \emptyset$. Then as $n\to\infty$ the proportion $|M_n|/|\operatorname{Hom}(F_2, A_n)|$ tends to the constant $1 - e^{-1}$.

Sketch: Let $f : F_2 \to A_n$ be a random homomorphism. It is well-known that $f$ is surjective with high probability. One can also check that $f(w)$ does not fix $1$ with high probability. The number of fixed points of $f(x)$ is asymptotically Poisson with mean $1$, so the probability that there are no fixed points tends to $e^{-1}$. $\square$

Now let $w_1, w_2, \dots$ be an enumeration of the nontrivial words in $F_2$. Let $n_0 = 5$. For each $i$ in turn choose $n_i > n_{i-1}$ and a surjective homomorphism $f_i : F_2 \to A_{n_i}$ such that $f_i(w_i)$ does not fix $1$ but $f_i(x)$ does have some fixed point. Let $H_i \le F_2$ be the inverse image of the stabilizer of $1$, so $w_i \notin H_i$. Let $\Gamma_n = H_1 \cap \cdots \cap H_n$. Each $H_i$ has index $n_i < \infty$, so $\Gamma_n$ has finite index. Since $w_i \notin H_i$ for each $i$, $\bigcap_{n=1}^\infty \Gamma_n = \{1\}$.

I claim that for any $n$, there is some conjugate of $x$ contained in $\Gamma_n$. Since the groups $A_{n_i}$ are distinct simple groups, the product map $f = f_1 \times \cdots \times f_n$ maps $F_2$ onto the direct product $\prod_{i=1}^n A_{n_i}$. Since $f_i(x)$ has a fixed point for each $i$, some conjugate of $f(x)$ is such that its projection to each $A_{n_i}$ fixes $1$. This implies that some conjugate of $x$ is contained in $\Gamma_n$.

$\endgroup$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge that you have read and understand our privacy policy and code of conduct.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.