6
$\begingroup$

Question: Let $k$ be an algebraically closed field, and $A,B$ abelian varieties over $k$. Suppose there exists an isogeny $A\to B$. Does this imply existence of a separable isogeny $A\to B$?


Known Cases: The answer is yes when $k$ has characteristic zero (because every isogeny is separable). More interestingly, the answer is also yes for elliptic curves over $\overline{\mathbb{F}_p}$: Since every isogeny factors into a Frobenius map and a separable map, it suffices to prove the result for $B=A^{(p)}$.

  • If $A$ is ordinary, then the Verschiebung map (dual to Frobenius) is separable, and this is true for all isogenous curves as well. So if the field of definition of $A$ is $\mathbb{F}_{p^k}$, then the composition of Verschiebung maps $$A\simeq A^{(p^k)}\to A^{(p^{k-1})}\to\cdots\to A^{(p^2)}\to A^{(p)} $$ is separable. (This argument applies more generally to any ordinary abelian variety over $\overline{\mathbb{F}_p}$.)
  • If $A$ is supersingular, we can take any prime $\ell\neq p$ and use the fact that the $\ell$-isogeny graph of supersingular curves is connected.

Further thoughts: I don't think the second bullet point above is the right place to look for a generalization; connectedness of $\ell$-isogeny graphs of abelian varieties is a very difficult problem in general, and it's also much stronger than we need. I also don't know how to approach the problem when $k\neq\overline{\mathbb{F}_p}$ has characteristic $p$.

$\endgroup$
5
  • $\begingroup$ Hi Jonathan! If there were a separable isogeny, the p(-power)-torsion group schemes would be isomorphic, right? Is it known that p-power isogenous abelian varieties have isomorphic p-divisible groups? $\endgroup$
    – Asvin
    Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 1:32
  • $\begingroup$ Oh hi Asvin! Thanks for the comment. That's a very good question but I don't know the answer - it somehow seems more unlikely when phrased that way, but I don't immediately see a reason it would be false. (I also just have no idea how one would go about showing that two abelian varieities have non-isomorphic p-divisible groups without using isogeny invariants.) $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 2:42
  • $\begingroup$ But do let me know if you have any ideas, partial or otherwise! $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 2:43
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I think the answer should also be yes for abelian varieties over $\overline{\mathbb F}_p$ because we can lift them to CM AVs in char 0 with the same rational ring of endomorphisms along with a lift of the isogeny. The given isogeny will then correspond to an ideal $I$ that reduces to the inseparable isogeny mod $p$ and we can pick a different ideal $J$ in the same ideal class but now co-prime to $p$. Does this work? $\endgroup$
    – Asvin
    Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 4:32
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ Finally, I think this should be false for any non-isotrivial elliptic curve $E_t/ \overline{\mathbb F}_p(t)$ and the Frobenius isogeny. Suppose there were a $N$-power isogeny between $E_t$ and $E_t^{(p)}$ and let's assume we set things up so the parameter $t$ is the $j$-invariant. Then, we would have an equation of the form $\Phi_N(t,t^p) = 0$ wher $\Phi_N$ is the appropriate modular polynomial. But this is impossible for degree considerations! $\Phi_N(x,y)$ cuts out a $(\varphi(n),\varphi(n))$ cycle in $\mathbb P^1\times \mathbb P^1$ and it's intersection with $x = y^p$ is finite. $\endgroup$
    – Asvin
    Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 4:41

1 Answer 1

9
$\begingroup$

The answer is no. I think Asvin's example in the comments is correct but there may be a few things to check. I will give a different example that is easier to check, using Moret-Bailly's famous example of a nonisotrivial supersingular abelian surface.

Let $E$ be a supersingular elliptic curve over $F$, the algebraic closure of a finite field of characteristic $p$ and $A = E \times E$. The kernel of Frobenius on $A$ is isomorphic to $\alpha_p \times \alpha_p$ and we take $B = A/G$ where $G$ is the subgroup scheme of kernel of Frobenius given by $\{y=tx\} \subset \alpha_p \times \alpha_p$ where $t$ is transcendental over $F$. Then $k$ will be the algebraic closure of $F(t)$, $B$ is defined over $k$ but does not descend to $F$.

Now, any separable isogeny with source $A$ is $A \to A/H$, where $H$ is a finite etale subgroup of $A$, but such a subgroup is defined over $F$ so $A/H$ is defined over $F$ and can't be isomorphic to $B$.

$\endgroup$
2
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Very nice! My first thought was also this surface but I didn't realize that etale isogenies would be defined over the base field! $\endgroup$
    – Asvin
    Commented Mar 15, 2023 at 15:21
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Thank you - both Felipe and Asvin - for the nice examples! $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 16, 2023 at 3:01

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.