12
$\begingroup$

Let us denote by $|F-G|_H$ the Hausdorff distance between compact sets $F$ and $G$ in the plane.

Is it possible to choose a point $p_F\in F$ in any non-empty compact convex figure $F\subset\mathbb{R}^2$ such that $$|p_F-p_G|\leqslant |F-G|_H?$$

Comments

  • The barycentre does not work.

  • The center of minimal ball containing the figure does not work. Look at the two triangles shown below (this example was suggested by Saúl RM).

  • Now we see that there is no such choice (thanks to Saúl RM and Fedja). Let me mention that it also implies that there is no short retraction $\mathrm{Haus}\,\mathbb{R^2}\to \mathbb{R^2}$. Here $\mathrm{Haus}\,\mathbb{R^2}$ denotes the set of all nonempty compact sets in the plane equipped with Hausdorff metric and $\mathbb{R^2}$ is considered as a subspace of $\mathrm{Haus}\,\mathbb{R^2}$ via the distance-preserving embedding that sens a point $x$ to the one-point set $\{x\}$.

  • It was proved that the best choice is the so-called Steiner center $s_F$ --- the center of mass of curvature of $\partial F$. Namely, we have $$|s_F-s_G|\leqslant \tfrac4\pi\cdot|F-G|_H.$$ This statement (plus the higher-dimensional version) was proved by E. D. Positzelskii in his "Lipschitz mappings..." (1971); it was rediscovered by Krzysztof Przesławski and David Yost in their "Continuity properties of selectors..." (1989) and it is a simple corollary of the results of Denis Rutovitz (1965) and Igor Daugavet (1968). It also appear as Proposition 2.21 in "Geometric nonlinear functional analysis. Vol. 1" by Yoav Benyamini and Joram Lindenstrauss.

$\endgroup$
8
  • $\begingroup$ I guess that take the gravity center works, but I am unable to check it. The gravity center of a non-empty compact convex set is $p_F = \lambda_F(F)^{-1} \int_F xd\lambda_F(x)$ where $\lambda_F$ is the Lebesgue measure on the affine space generated by $F$. $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 17:54
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ One candidate for which I didn't find an obvious counterexample: the barycenter of the boundary of the convex set (we can parametrize the boundary by unit length and then find the barycenter of that). In segments it is just the middle point $\endgroup$
    – Saúl RM
    Oct 19, 2022 at 22:44
  • $\begingroup$ @SaúlRM did you thaut about baryceter of curvature? (In other words baryceter of vertices of polygon with weights proportional to their external angles.) $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 22:46
  • $\begingroup$ @SaúlRM BTW it seems that for line segments only, one can choose their midpoints, but I cannot verify it. $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 22:49
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @AntonPetrunin If $[a,b]$ and $[c,d]$ are $t$-close, then $a-c, b-d\le t$, so $\frac{a+b}2-\frac{c+d}2\le t$ and we can exchange the intervals to get the other bound. $\endgroup$
    – fedja
    Oct 20, 2022 at 0:01

3 Answers 3

5
+500
$\begingroup$

There does not exist any function $p:F\mapsto p_F$ as in the question, to prove it by contradiction suppose such a function $p$ exists. In the following let $k+A=\{k+a;a\in A\}$ for any $k\in\mathbb{R}^2$, $A\subseteq\mathbb{R}^2$

To see why, consider the triangle $T_0$ with vertices $(-1,0),(1,0)$ and $(0,1)$. Let $r:(x,y)\mapsto(x,-y)$ be the reflection respect to the $x$ axis.

Now consider for each natural $n$ the triangle $T_n=r^n(T_0+10(n,0))$, and let $p_{T_n}=(x_n,y_n)$. Note that $d_H(T_n,T_{n+1})=10$, so $\sqrt{(x_{n+1}-x_n)^2+(y_{n+1}-y_n)^2}=d(p_{T_n},p_{T_{n+1}})\leq 10$. This, of course, implies that $x_{n+1}-x_n\leq10$. Moreover, $(y_{n+1}-y_n)^2=(|y_{n+1}|+|y_n|)^2$, since $y_n$ and $y_{n+1}$ have opposite signs.

This will allow us to deduce by contradiction that $y_n\to 0$: if not, we would have some $\varepsilon>0$ and infinitely many $n$ such that $|y_n|>\varepsilon$, so $x_{n+1}-x_n<\sqrt{100-\varepsilon^2}$. This implies that for big enough $n$, we will have $x_n-x_0<10n-2$, which is impossible since $10n-2=d(T_n,T_0)$.

Similarly, let $S_0$ be the triangle with vertices $(-1,1),(1,1)$ and $(0,0)$, let $s$ be the reflection around the line $y=1$ and let $S_n=s^n(S_0+10(n,0))$. Then letting $p_{S_n}=(z_n,w_n)$, we can prove that $w_n\to 1$ as before. So for big enough even $n$ we have $d_H(T_n,S_n)=\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}$ and $d(p_n,q_n)\geq0.9$, the contradiction we were looking for.

$\endgroup$
19
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Yep, you proof is simpler. The underlying idea is essentially the same but you use one direction only, which makes both the argument and its quantification fairly simple. Congratulations! Now let's try to tighten the bounds :-) $\endgroup$
    – fedja
    Oct 20, 2022 at 1:51
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Actually your original argument works too. If we have an $L$-Lipschitz $p$, then we can average $p(v+K)-v$ over big disks and take a limit to get a version commuting with translations and then $R^{-1}p(RK)$ over rotations $R$ to get it commuting with rotations too, without changing $L$. This observation should allow to get fairly good bounds, especially from below. I hope I didn't miss anything. $\endgroup$
    – fedja
    Oct 20, 2022 at 13:07
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ More precisely, since the isometry invariant version must assign to an equilateral triangle its center, we can place two such triangles in the "hourglass" configuration and get the lower bound $L\ge 2/\sqrt 3$ immediately. $\endgroup$
    – fedja
    Oct 20, 2022 at 13:35
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @AntonPetrunin Now, once the problem is solved (at least in the originally posted formulation) the question "What led you to asking it?" becomes legitimate (especially if you suggest that SaulRM makes a formal publication). So what's the underlying story here (if there is one)? $\endgroup$
    – fedja
    Oct 20, 2022 at 16:48
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ In an answer to a post linked in the question (mathoverflow.net/questions/120240), Günter Rote seems to claim "The best Lipschitz constant (for the Hausdorff distance) is achieved by the so-called Steiner point". Is that a different constant than what is discussed here? $\endgroup$ Oct 20, 2022 at 18:22
2
$\begingroup$

OK, here is why $Lip1$ is impossible. Suppose we have such choice. Then consider all $K$ whose minimal containing box is a unit square. Let $[x(K),x(K)+1]\times[y(K),y(K)+1]$ be the minimal containing box of $K$. Let $e=(1,0)$. Note that if $L$ is another such domain, then for fixed $t$ and $T\to+\infty$, we have $d_H(te+K,Te+L)=(T-t)+x(L)-x(K)+o(1)$ (the fixed vertical shift becomes of no importance). Thus, we conclude that if $p(te+K).x-x(te+K)=w$, then $p(Te+L).x-x(Te+L)\le w+o(1)$ as $T\to\infty$, whence the difference $p(Te+K).x-x(Te+K)$ has a (usual) limit $w_x$ independent of $K$ as $T\to+\infty$. Now if we define $$ p_T(K)=p(Te+K)-Te $$
and put $p_1(K)=\lim_T p_T(K)$ where the limit is taken with respect to some ultrafilter containing the usual filter of rays going to $+\infty$, we shall get a choice whose $x$-coordinate is $x(K)+w_x$ for every $K$ in our class and that choice still is $Lip1$. Now we can run the same construction in the $y$-direction and conclude that we can make a $Lip1$ choice $p_2$ such that $p(K).y=y(K)+w_y$ as well. But then for this class of domains, choosing the box center works as well. However if we take $K=conv((-1,0),(0,-1),(0,0))$ and $L=-K$ and observe that $d_H(K,L)=1$ but the box shift is of length $\sqrt2$.

Remarks:

  1. The ultrafilter is not really needed but it makes the proof very transparent, so I decided to use it. Those who dislike AC are welcome to recast it as an argument with classical limits only (or, better, without limits at all using the pigeonhole principle instead) as an exercise.

  2. While this argument shows that the minimal possible Lipschitz constant is strictly greater than $1$ (if we could get it arbitrarily close to $1$, we could get $1$ as well by taking the limit along, erm, some ultrafilter on positive integers containing the standard filter for the usual limit), it does not provide any explicit lower bound. So finding a reasonable lower bound $1+\delta$ for the Lipschits constant remains an open problem (some quantification is actually possible even using just finitely many shifts of the last two triangles, but I would rather not write down the ridiculously small $\delta$ it yields).

  3. I hope that is all correct, but check everything carefully because it is quite late here now and I'm not at my best today :-)

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ What does $p(te+K).x$ mean? $\endgroup$
    – Saúl RM
    Oct 20, 2022 at 1:54
  • $\begingroup$ @SaúlRM it is $x$-coordinate. $\endgroup$ Oct 20, 2022 at 11:31
0
$\begingroup$

Almost complete proof (the final argument still needs to be formalized).

We work in any Euclidean space $E$.

Informally, I take $p_F$ equal to the center of the closed ball with minimum radius containing $F$ (existence and uniqueness are shown below).

For $\delta \ge 0$, call $B_\delta$ the closed ball with radius $\delta$ centered at $0$.

By definition, given two non-empty compact sets $F$ and $G$, the Hausdorff distance $|F-G|_H$ is the least $\delta$ such that $F \subset G + B_\delta$ and $G \subset F + B_\delta$.

For every non-empty compact convex set $F$, and every $x \in E$, set $f_F(x) = \sup\{d(x,y) : y \in F\}$. Observe that for each $r \ge 0$, $f_F(x) \le r$ if and only if $F \subset \overline{B}(x,r)$.

The function $f_F$ is $1$-Lipschitz hence continuous. Its infimum on $F$ is achieved (by compactness) at only one point (by convexity). Indeed, if $F$ is contained in two closed ball with same radius with centers $x_1 \ne x_2$, it is contained in some ball centered at $(x_1+x_2)/2$ with smaller radius. Hence $$r_F := \min_{x \in F} f_F(x) \text{ and } p_F := \arg\min_{x \in F} f_F(x)$$ are well-defined.

Now consider another non-empty compact convex set $G$, and set $\delta = |F-G|_H$. Then $$G \subset F+B_\delta \subset \overline{B}(p_F,r_F) + B_\delta = \overline{B}(p_F,r_F+\delta),$$ so $$r_G \le f_G(p_F) \le r_F+\delta.$$ Of course, we can reverse the roles of $F$ and $G$. By symmetry, we may and we do assume that $r_G \ge r_F$. One has $$G \subset \overline{B}(p_G,r_G) \cap \overline{B}(p_F,r_F+\delta).$$ (To be formalized, looks clear on a picture) I claim that $\overline{B}(p_G,r_G) \subset \overline{B}(p_F,r_F+\delta)$, so $|p_F-p_G| \le r_F+\delta-r_G \le \delta$. Otherwise, the intersection of these two balls would be contained in some ball with center in $G$ (starting from $p_G$, move a bit the center in the direction of $p_F$) and radius $<r_G$, and this would contradict the definition of $r_G$.

$\endgroup$
13
  • $\begingroup$ Please see the example I added to the question. $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 20:13
  • $\begingroup$ Nice counter-examples. So the last argument is false, I suppose that there is still a Lipschitz constant, greater than 1. It would have been nice to give these negative answers in the question, to avoid wrong reflexions. Do you have other natural candidates which fail? $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 21:11
  • $\begingroup$ Another candidate for $p_F$: the barycenter of the (convex) subset of all points which maximize the distance to $F^c$? $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 21:29
  • $\begingroup$ No, the map is only $C^{\frac12}$-continuous. $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 22:06
  • $\begingroup$ I would check baryceter with of vertices of polygon with weights proportional to their external angles. $\endgroup$ Oct 19, 2022 at 22:18

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.