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Consider the following two very similar statements in ${\sf ZF}$:

(Mat_1) There is a set $A$ a map $\alpha: \omega \to {\cal P}(A)$ such that for all $n\in \omega$ we have $\alpha(n+1) \subseteq \alpha(n)$, and there is no injective map from $\alpha(n)$ into $\alpha(n+1)$.

and

(Mat_2) There is a set $A$ a map $\alpha: \omega \to {\cal P}(A)$ such that for all $n\in \omega$ we have $\alpha(n+1) \subseteq \alpha(n)$, and there is no surjective map from $\alpha(n+1)$ onto $\alpha(n)$.

In both settings we have a sequence of subsets of a ground set $A$ getting smaller and smaller - reminscent of Matryoshka dolls.

Note that neither statement is compatible with the Axiom of Choice ${\sf (AC})$ since the $\{|\alpha(n)|: n\in \omega\}$ would be an infinite strictly descending sequence in the cardinal $|A|$, contradicting the fact that $|A|$ is well-ordered.

Note the following:

Fact. In ${\sf ZF}$, if $A, B$ are non-empty sets and $f:A\to B$ is an injection, then there is a surjection $g:B\to A$ such that $g\circ f$ is the identity on $A$.

From this we get that (Mat_2) implies (Mat_1).

Are (Mat_1) and (Mat_2) equivalent in ${\sf ZF}$? Does one of $\neg$(Mat_1) and $\neg$(Mat_2) imply ${\sf (AC)}$?

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    $\begingroup$ math.stackexchange.com/q/1634372/127263 $\endgroup$
    – Wojowu
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 12:06
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    $\begingroup$ It's very easy to find examples of sequences witnessing (1) but not (2), but it's a lot harder to show that there are no other sequences. $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 12:34
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    $\begingroup$ I've just realized there is a subtle difference between this question and the one I linked above - essentially, in this question, you need to not only have a descending sequence of cardinals, but you also need to choose the representatives of cardinalities. Because of this it is for instance not immediate that the negation of Mat_1 implies there are no infinite Dedekind-finite cardinals (while it would be clear if we looked at cardinals themselves). $\endgroup$
    – Wojowu
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 13:51
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks @Wojowu for both the link and your additional comment $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 14:06
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    $\begingroup$ See mathoverflow.net/questions/308095/… and mathoverflow.net/questions/308030/… $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Commented Jul 9, 2021 at 15:11

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