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Consider a discrete group $G$ and its group algebra over $\mathbb{C}$, $\mathbb{C}[G]$. There are four norms on it I wish to consider for this question:

  1. The 2-norm given by $||\sum_{g \in G} c_gg||_2^2 = \sum_{g \in G} |c_g|^2$;
  2. The 1-norm given by $||\sum_{g \in G} c_gg||_1 = \sum_{g \in G} |c_g|$;
  3. The $\infty$-norm given by $||\sum_{g \in G} c_gg||_\infty = \sup_{g \in G} |c_g|$;
  4. The operator norm induced by the left regular representation, i.e., if $\lambda: \mathbb{C}[G] \rightarrow \mathbb{B}(l^2(G))$ is the left regular representation, then the norm I wish to consider is $||x||_{op} = ||\lambda(x)||$.

The first question I have is for what $G$ are the operator norm and the 1-norm equivalent. We always have $||x||_{op} \leq ||x||_1$, so it's only the other direction that's interesting. Obviously, this holds whenever $G$ is finite, and my guess is that this never holds for any infinite group, but I cannot find any proof of this.

The second question is a weaker version of the first: Under what conditions would it happen that $||x||_2^2 \leq C||x||_{op}||x||_\infty, \forall x \in \mathbb{C}[G]$ for some constant $C > 0$. Or, in an even weaker form, under what conditions would it happen that whenever, for a sequence of elements $x_n$ in $\mathbb{C}[G]$ with uniformly bounded operator norms and $\infty$-norms converging to zero, we always have the 2-norms converging to zero? By Hölder's inequality, this would follow if the first question has a positive answer. Again, this is only interesting when $G$ is infinite.

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    $\begingroup$ Your guess is correct for Q1 - the norms are inequivalent for every infinite G - but currently the proof I have invokes machinery (namely, Arens regularity) that is surely unnecessary and over-the-top, and which doesn't seem to help with Q2. $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 12:47
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    $\begingroup$ Have you tried to see if the inequality in Q2 holds for $G={\mathbb Z}$ when we can study things as functions on ${\mathbb T}$? $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 12:48
  • $\begingroup$ On further reflection, I think one can use classical examples from Fourier analysis to show that the "weakest form" of Q2 has a negative answer for $G={\mathbb Z}$, and then this should bootstrap to give a negative answer for any $G$ that contains an element of infinite order. I suspect that the answer is negative for any infinite $G$. $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 13:08
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    $\begingroup$ Q1 has a relatively easy answer. $\ell^1(G)$ is weakly sequentially complete (wsc). $\|.\|_{op}$ is a $C^*$-algebra norm, and the completion of $\mathbb{C}[G]$ with this norm is the reduced group $C^*$-algebra $C^*_r(G)$. Were the two norms equivalent, then $C^*_r(G)$ would be a wsc $C^*$-algebra. Only wsc $C^*$-algebras are finite dimensional ones. $C^*_r(G)$ is finite dimensional only when $G$ is a finite group. $\endgroup$
    – Onur Oktay
    Commented Nov 8, 2023 at 14:25
  • $\begingroup$ @OnurOktay's very nice argument is actually showing the stronger result that there is no Banach space isomorphism between $\ell^1(G)$ and ${\rm C}_r^\ast(G)$. (It may be worth adding that WSC passes to closed subspaces and $c_0$ is not WSC, which I assume is how one shows that infinite-dimensional ${\rm C}^\ast$-algebras are not WSC) $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 10, 2023 at 1:12

3 Answers 3

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This is an alternative, more ad hoc proof, very closely mimicking a part of section 3 of the paper https://doi.org/10.4007/annals.2013.178.1.4

The start of the argument is the same. Write $M=L(G)$. Given $\varepsilon > 0$, it suffices to prove the existence of a unitary $v \in U(M)$ such that $|(v)_g| < \varepsilon$ for all $g \in G$. We again argue by contradiction and denote by $\Delta : M \to M \overline{\otimes} M$ the comultiplication.

Note that for every $v \in U(M)$, we have

$$(\tau \otimes \tau \otimes \tau)((\Delta(v) \otimes v)(v \otimes \Delta(v))^*) = \sum_{g \in G} |(v)_g|^4 \geq \varepsilon^4 \; .$$

Denote by $K \subset \text{ball}(M \overline{\otimes} M \overline{\otimes} M)$ the $\|\cdot\|_2$-closure of the convex hull of

$$\{(\Delta(v) \otimes v)(v \otimes \Delta(v))^* \mid v \in U(M)\} \; .$$

Let $X \in K$ be the unique element of minimal $\|\cdot\|_2$. By the above estimate, $(\tau \otimes \tau \otimes \tau)(X) \geq \varepsilon^4$, so that $X \neq 0$. By uniqueness of $X$, we find that

$$(\Delta(v) \otimes v) X = X (v \otimes \Delta(v))$$

for all $v \in U(M)$. Denote $\mathcal{G} = \{v \otimes v \mid v \in U(M)\}$, which is a subgroup of $U(M \overline{\otimes} M)$. Write $P = \mathcal{G}^{\prime\prime}$. We conclude that

$$(\Delta \otimes \text{id})(a) X = X (\text{id}\otimes \Delta)(a)$$

for all $a \in P$.

Whenever $b \in M$ is self-adjoint, we have $\exp(itb) \otimes \exp(itb) \in P$ for every $t \in \mathbb{R}$. Taking the derivative at $t = 0$, it follows that $b \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes b \in P$. By linearity, $b \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes b \in P$ for all $b \in M$. In particular, $u_g \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes u_g \in P$ for all $g \in G$. We write $y_g = u_g \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes u_g$ and $S = XX^*$. It follows that

$$(\Delta \otimes \text{id})(y_g) S = X (\text{id}\otimes \Delta)(y_g) X^*$$

for all $g \in G$. Write $Q = \Delta(M) \overline{\otimes} M$. Taking left and right the conditional expectation on $Q$ and writing $E_Q(S) = (\Delta \otimes \text{id})(T)$ for some $T \in M \overline{\otimes} M$, we conclude that

$$ \| y_g T\|_2 = \|E_Q(X (\text{id}\otimes \Delta)(y_g) X^*)\|_2$$

for all $g \in G$.

Since $G$ is infinite, we can take a sequence $g_n \to \infty$ in $G$. We prove that

$$\|y_{g_n} T\|_2 \to \sqrt{2} \|T\|_2 \quad\text{and}\quad \|E_Q(X (\text{id}\otimes \Delta)(y_{g_n}) X^*)\|_2 \to 0 \; .$$

When both are proven, we conclude that $T = 0$, so that $S = 0$ and thus $X = 0$, a contradiction.

For the first limit, note that

$$\|y_{g_n} T\|_2^2 = (\tau \otimes \tau)(T^*(2 + u_{g_n}^* \otimes u_{g_n} + u_{g_n} \otimes u_{g_n}^*) T) \to 2 \|T\|_2^2 $$

because $u_{g_n} \to 0$ weakly.

For the second limit by density and uniform continuity, it suffices to prove that

$$\|E_Q(Y (\text{id}\otimes \Delta)(y_{g_n}) Z)\|_2 \to 0$$

whenever $Y = u_{h_1} \otimes u_{h_2} \otimes u_{h_3}$ and $Z = u_{k_1} \otimes u_{k_2} \otimes u_{k_3}$ with $h_i,k_i \in G$. But in that case, the expression is eventually zero.

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This is only a partial answer, but it shows that if G has an element of infinite order then the weakest form of Q2 has a negative answer.

We use the so-called Rudin-Shapiro polynomials (really due to Shapiro), see

W. Rudin, Some theorems on Fourier coefficients. Proc. Amer. Math. Soc. 10 (1959), 855–859. MathReview | DOI 10.1090/S0002-9939-1959-0116184-5

The properties we require: there is a sequence $(\varepsilon_j)_{j\geq 1}\in \{\pm 1\}^{\mathbb N}$ such that when we set $P_n(z)=\sum_{j=1}^n \varepsilon_j z^j$ whe have $\sup_{|z|=1} |P_n(z)| \leq 5\sqrt{n}$. If I recall correctly, a construction and proof of these properties is also in Katznelson's Introduction to Harmonic Analysis.

Now pick an element $g\in G$ with infinite order and define $f_n =n^{-1/2}\sum_{j=1}^n \varepsilon_j \delta_{(g^j)}$. These are norm-1 vectors in $\ell^2(G)$ and clearly $\lVert f_n\rVert_\infty \to 0$ as $n\to\infty$. On the other hand, by general properties of ${\rm C}^\ast$-algebras, the operator norm of $f_n$ is equal to the $L^\infty$-norm of $n^{-1/2}P_n$ viewed as function on the unit circle, hence is at most $\sqrt{5}$.

Note: as remarked in Rudin's article, if we allow complex coefficients for our Fourier series then an even older example is possible; Rudin says this is due to Hardy and Littlewood. However I thought I would keep the use of the "Rudin-Shapiro polynomials" since they are more combinatorial and they were the example that came to mind first.

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    $\begingroup$ On further reflection, I think that this should also yield counterexamples for any $G$ where the orders of elements can be arbitrarily large (just use the RS polynomials but restrict to finite cyclic subgroups). Thus the problem is reduced to infinite torsion groups with a uniform bound on the orders of elements $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 14:26
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks! I suppose you meant something like, in the definition of $f_n$ we can replace $g$ by any group element of order larger than $n$, then the proof basically works as is for infinite torsion groups with unbounded orders of elements? For the remainder case, do you know if this holds in some specific cases, such as the direct sum or Cartesian product of infinite copies of a fixed finite group? $\endgroup$
    – David Gao
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 18:11
  • $\begingroup$ @DavidGao That's a good question. Indeed I haven't thought about $\{\pm 1\}^{\oplus \mathbb N}$ where an answer - positive or negative - must surely be known via Fourier analysis on LCA groups $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 20:20
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Also for an arbitrary infinite group $G$, the weakest form of Q2 has a negative answer.

Denote by $M=L(G)$ the group von Neumann algebra with its canonical trace $\tau$. For every element $a \in M$, we denote by $(a)_g = \tau(au_g^*)$ its Fourier coefficients. Given $\epsilon > 0$, I'll show below that we can find a unitary $v \in U(M)$ such that $|(v)_g| \leq \epsilon$ for all $g \in G$.

Once this is proven, the Kaplansky density theorem provides an element $a \in \mathbb{C}[G]$ such that $\|a\|_{op} \leq 1$ and $\|v-a\|_2 < \epsilon$. Then, $\|a\|_2 > 1-\epsilon$ and $|(a)_g| < 2 \epsilon$ for all $g \in G$.

I expect that one should be able to prove the existence of such a unitary $v \in U(M)$ by more elementary means, but the following argument using Sorin Popa's intertwining-by-bimodules does the job. I freely make use of some of the jargon and basic results of that theory. The necessary background can be found in Chapter 17 of the book of Claire Anantharaman and Sorin Popa, which is available here: https://www.math.ucla.edu/~popa/Books/IIunV15.pdf

The start of the argument is inspired by section 3 of the following paper: https://doi.org/10.4007/annals.2013.178.1.4

I post an alternative, more ad hoc, proof below, which is even more closely inspired by section 3 of the above mentioned paper.

In that paper, the largest Fourier coefficient of an element $a \in L(G)$ (i.e. $\|a\|_\infty$ in the notation of the question above) is called the height of $a$.

We give an argument by contradiction. Assume that we have an $\epsilon > 0$ such that for every $v \in U(M)$, there exists a $g \in G$ with $|(v)_g| \geq \epsilon$.

Denote by $\Delta : M \to M \overline{\otimes} M$ the comultiplication satisfying $\Delta(u_g) = u_g \otimes u_g$ for all $g \in G$. Denote by $E_{\Delta(M)}$ the unique trace preserving conditional expectation from $M \overline{\otimes} M$ onto $\Delta(M)$. For every $v \in U(M)$, we have that $\|E_{\Delta(M)}(v \otimes v)\|_2^2 = \sum_{g \in G} |(v)_g|^4 \geq \varepsilon^4$.

Denote $\mathcal{G} = \{v \otimes v \mid v \in U(M)\}$, which is a subgroup of $U(M \overline{\otimes} M)$. Write $P = \mathcal{G}^{\prime\prime}$. With the notation of Popa's intertwining-by-bimodules (see Definition 17.1.4 in the book cited above), we get that $P \prec_{M \overline{\otimes} M} \Delta(M)$.

Denote by $\sigma \in \operatorname{Aut}(M \overline{\otimes} M)$ the flip automorphism. I claim that $P$ equals the fixed point algebra $(M \overline{\otimes} M)^\sigma$ of $\sigma$. Clearly $P \subset (M \overline{\otimes} M)^\sigma$. Whenever $a \in M$ is self-adjoint, we have $\exp(ita) \otimes \exp(ita) \in P$ for every $t \in \mathbb{R}$. Taking the derivative at $t = 0$, it follows that $a \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes a \in P$. By linearity, $a \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes a \in P$ for all $a \in M$ and in particular for all $a \in U(M)$. Multiplying with $v \otimes v$ for $v \in U(M)$, it follows that $a \otimes u + u \otimes a \in P$ for all $a,u \in U(M)$. By linearity, we find that $a + \sigma(a) \in P$ for all $a \in M \overline{\otimes} M$ and the claim is proven.

It follows from the claim that $P$ has index $2$ in $M \overline{\otimes} M$. Since $P \prec_{M \overline{\otimes} M} \Delta(M)$, we then also get that $M \overline{\otimes} M \prec_{M \overline{\otimes} M} \Delta(M)$. A fortiori, $M \otimes 1 \prec_{M \overline{\otimes} M} \Delta(M)$.

Since the group $G$ is infinite, we can take a sequence $g_n \in G$ such that $g_n \to \infty$. I claim that $\|E_{\Delta(M)}(a (u_{g_n} \otimes 1) b)\|_2 \to 0$ for all $a,b \in M \overline{\otimes} M$. By density and uniform continuity, it suffices to prove this claim for elements $a$ and $b$ of the form $u_k \otimes u_h$ with $k,h \in G$, in which case the result is immediate.

From the claim, it however follows that $M \otimes 1 \not\prec_{M \overline{\otimes} M} \Delta(M)$ and we have reached a contradiction.

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  • $\begingroup$ In this context, what does "embed" mean? Is it just unitarily equivalent to an inclusion? $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Commented Nov 6, 2023 at 4:18
  • $\begingroup$ Thank you for the answer! The following are probably dumb questions: first, are all unitaries in $P$ of the form $v \otimes v$? (As that seems to be needed when you say that implies $P$ embeds into $\Delta(M)$ inside $M \bar{\otimes} M$.) Also, why does $P$ contain all elements invariant under the flip automorphism? Is there an easy way to see this? $\endgroup$
    – David Gao
    Commented Nov 6, 2023 at 5:02
  • $\begingroup$ I have added more details to answer the above two questions. Below I also give a more ad hoc proof that uses less heavy machinery. Nevertheless I believe that there should also be a truly elementary proof. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 6, 2023 at 9:16
  • $\begingroup$ Oh, I realized. It is enough to consider a generating group of unitaries to prove $P$ intertwines into $\Delta(M)$. Now this proof also makes sense to me. Thank you! $\endgroup$
    – David Gao
    Commented Nov 6, 2023 at 16:42

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