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Suppose that $X$ and $Y$ are algebraic varieties over $\mathbb{Z}$ (add your favourite hypotheses, like smooth or affine if needed). Denote by $X_k$ and $Y_k$ their base-change to varieties over a field $k$.

My question, in its greatest generality (possible false) is the following:

Question: Is it true that if $X_\mathbb{C}$ is isomorphic to $Y_\mathbb{C}$, then $X_{\mathbb{F}_q}$ is isomorphic to $Y_{\mathbb{F}_q}$, for $\mathbb{F}_q$ the finite field with $q$ elements, for large enough characteristic?

Some comments

  • This is a kind of "Lefschetz principle" statement, relating the behaviour for zero characteristic and for large positive characteristic. Indeed, my (failed) attempts were to write the proof of the isomorphism as a first-order logic formula and to use some model-theoretic tricks to prove that this formula still holds for large characteristic.
  • Maybe the answer is no with some Frobenius-like trick (which I'm not aware of), but could it be true "in the Grothendieck ring"? This means, is it true that if $X_\mathbb{C}$ is isomorphic to $Y_\mathbb{C}$ then $[X_{\mathbb{F}_q}] = [Y_{\mathbb{F}_q}]$ in $K(\textbf{Var})$? Perhaps the isomorphism no longer holds in positive characteristic, but it does work "piecewise", so you can stratify $X$ and $Y$ into smaller pieces where the isomorphism over $\mathbb{C}$ induces an isomorphism over $\mathbb{F}_q$.
  • I'm not asking whether the isomorphism over $\mathbb{C}$ becomes an isomorphism over $\mathbb{F}_q$. Maybe the varieties are isomorphic but the isomorphism is not the same.
  • In the affine case, this would be equivalent to: Given two finitely generated rings $A$ and $B$, if $A \otimes_{\mathbb{Z}} \mathbb{C} \cong B \otimes_{\mathbb{Z}} \mathbb{C}$, do we have that $A \otimes_{\mathbb{Z}} \mathbb{F}_q \cong B \otimes_{\mathbb{Z}} \mathbb{F}_q$ for large $q$.
  • In the affirmative case, would it be possible to extend the base ring from $\mathbb{Z}$ to an arbitrary finitely generated ring $R$ with an extension $R \hookrightarrow \mathbb{C}$ so that the isomorphism holds for all the finite field that extend $R$ for large characteristic?

Thank you very much!

P.S.: Sorry if this is a dumb question: I'm a complex geometer and I'm not very familiar with arithmetic techniques!

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    $\begingroup$ First example: set $X = \operatorname{Spec} \mathbf Z[x]/(f)$ and $Y = \operatorname{Spec}\mathbf Z[x]/(g)$ for monic irreducible polynomials $f,g \in \mathbf Z[x]$ of the same degree. Then $X_{\mathbf C} \cong Y_{\mathbf C}$, and $X_{\mathbf Q}\cong Y_{\mathbf Q}$ if and only if $X_{\mathbf F_p} \cong Y_{\mathbf F_p}$ for a density $1$ set of primes. So besides 'spreading out' there is also a 'Galois twist' thing going on. The answer would be very different if you replace $\mathbf F_p$ by $\bar{\mathbf F}_p$. Are you interested in the arithmetic direction, or only the geometric version? $\endgroup$ Commented May 29, 2023 at 12:43
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    $\begingroup$ Thank you for the example! Absolutely. I'm mostly interested in the $\mathbb{F}_q$-case, but I'd be excited to see what happens on $\overline{\mathbb{F}}_q$ too. $\endgroup$
    – a_g
    Commented May 29, 2023 at 12:53

2 Answers 2

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I think your post contains a lot of the right ideas, but as in my comment, the situation is much more clear if you allow field extensions.

Here is a positive result:

Lemma. Let $S$ be a scheme and let $X \to S$ and $Y \to S$ be finitely presented $S$-schemes. Let $k$ be a field and $s \colon \operatorname{Spec} k \to S$ a morphism, and let $\phi \colon s^*X \stackrel\sim\to s^*Y$ be an isomorphism. Then there exists a finite type morphism $f \colon T \to S$ with a point $t \colon \operatorname{Spec} k \to T$ such that $f \circ t = s$ and an isomorphism $\psi \colon f^* X \stackrel\sim\to f^*Y$ such that $\phi = t^*\psi$.

Proof. We may replace $S$ by an open neighbourhood of the image of $s$, so in particular we may assume $S$ is affine; say $S = \operatorname{Spec} R$. We can write $k$ as a filtered colimit of finite type $R$-algebras; in other words, we write $\operatorname{Spec} k \to S$ as a cofiltered limit of finite type affine morphisms $T_i \to S$. Then [Tag 01ZM] gives the result. $\square$

Corollary. Let $S$ be an integral scheme, let $k$ be a field, let $s \colon \operatorname{Spec} k \to S$ a morphism whose image is the generic point, and let $X \to S$ and $Y \to S$ be finitely presented $S$-schemes. If $s^*X \cong s^*Y$, then there exists a dense open subset $U \subseteq S$ such that $X_{\bar u} \cong Y_{\bar u}$ for all $u \in U$.

Recall that $X_{\bar u}$ means the base change of $X \to S$ along $\operatorname{Spec}\bigl(\ \!\overline{\kappa(u)}\ \!\bigr) \to S$.

Proof. Choose $f \colon T \to S$ as in the lemma. The image of $f$ contains a dense open subset $U$ since it contains the generic point and $f$ is of finite type. Moreover, for any $u \in U$ and any closed point $t \in T_u$, the residue field extension $\kappa(u) \to \kappa(t)$ is finite by the weak Nullstellensatz. Thus the lemma gives an isomorphism $X_{\kappa(t)} \cong Y_{\kappa(t)}$, so in particular when passing to the algebraic closure. $\square$

There might be a model theoretic proof in the case $S = \operatorname{Spec} \mathbf Z$, using that the theory of algebraically closed fields is complete. At any rate, if this proof exists, it is not really different from the argument above.

Remark. In general, it is certainly too much to expect that the isomorphism descends all the way to $\mathbf Z$. For instance you can take $X = Y = \mathbf A^1$ and $\phi \colon \mathbf A^1_{\mathbf C} \stackrel\sim\to \mathbf A^1_{\mathbf C}$ a translation by a transcendental number.

For the question of whether $\operatorname{Isom}_{\kappa(u)}(X_u,Y_u) \neq \varnothing$ without field extensions, we will stop keeping track of the precise isomorphism (although in the end it will pop up again).

Replace $S$ and $T$ in the conclusion of the lemma by the closures of the images of $s$ and $t$ to assume they are irreducible and $s$ and $t$ are their generic points. Pass to affine open neighbourhoods if you haven't already. Take a closed point in the generic fibre $T_s$, and replace $T$ by its closure to assume that $T \to S$ is generically finite (it is at this point that we lose the relationship between $\psi \colon f^*X \stackrel\sim\to f^*Y$ and the original isomorphism $\phi$, as $T$ no longer contains $t$).

Replace $S$ and $T$ by their underlying reduced schemes. If $\operatorname{char} \kappa(s) = 0$, then $T \to S$ is generically étale, so over some nonempty open $U \subseteq S$ it is finite étale. Replacing $S$ by $U$ we reduce to the case where $f \colon T \to S$ is finite étale, and finally we replace this finite étale cover by its Galois closure.

We still have an isomorphism $\psi \colon f^*X \stackrel\sim\to f^*Y$. This induces a 1-cocycle for $\operatorname{Gal}(T/S)$ in the sheaf $\mathscr Aut(X)$, so we find a Galois obstruction to the existence of a global isomorphism. Then the question of whether $X_u \cong Y_u$ for $u \in S$ becomes a question of Frobenius elements acting trivially on the cover $T \to S$.

Example. Let $X \subseteq \mathbf A^2$ be the curve $y^2 = f(x)$ for a monic cubic polynomial $f \in \mathbf Z[x]$, and $Y$ its quadratic twist $dy^2 = f(x)$. Their projective closures $\bar X$ and $\bar Y$ are elliptic curves with neutral element the unique point $O = [0:1:0]$ at infinity. They become isomorphic over $\mathbf Q[\sqrt{d}]$, but are not isomorphic over $\mathbf Q$. The latter follows from a coordinate calculation that is often omitted:

  • Any isomorphism between elliptic curves in Weierstrass form is given by a projective change of coordinates;
  • Table 1.2 in Chapter III of Silverman's The arithmetic of elliptic curves shows what a change of coordinates does to the equations;
  • We may assume $X$ is given by $y^2 = x^3+ax+b$; then the quadratic twist can also be given by $y^2 = x^3 + d^2ax + d^3b$;
  • Then the only change of coordinates that is possible (in the notation of Silverman) has $r=s=t=0$ and $u$ needs to satisfy $u^2 = d$, which is impossible if $d$ is not a square.

If $p \nmid 6d\Delta(f)$ is a prime of good reduction for $X$ and for $\mathbf Z[\sqrt d]$, then $X_{\mathbf F_p} \cong Y_{\mathbf F_p}$ if and only if $p$ splits in $\mathbf Z[\sqrt{d}]$. Indeed, clearly the reductions at split primes become isomorphic, and at nonsplit primes we again get a quadratic twist, which for good primes $p > 3$ works the same as above. For instance, if $d = -1$ this happens if and only if $p \equiv 1 \pmod 4$.

Remark. What is a little weird about my method is that it's trying to descend a particular isomorphism. But there may exist some other isomorphism:

Example. Let $X = \mathbf P^1$ and $Y = V(x^2+y^2+z^2) \subseteq \mathbf P^2$. They become isomorphic over $\mathbf Q(i)$, but not over $\mathbf Q$ as $Y$ does not have a rational point. But they are isomorphic over $\mathbf F_p$ for every prime $p > 2$! Indeed, by Chevalley–Warning, the equation $x^2+y^2+z^2=0$ has a nontrivial solution in $\mathbf F_p$, and any smooth genus $0$ curve with a rational point is isomorphic to $\mathbf P^1$. However, we cannot choose the isomorphism "uniformly" in $p$ as it does not come from $\mathbf Z$.

Remark. This type of question is widely studied in arithmetic algebraic geometry, and there seems little hope of a clean criterion when $X_{\mathbf F_p} \cong Y_{\mathbf F_p}$ for all primes $p$, almost all primes $p$, a density $1$ set of primes $p$, a positive density set of primes $p$, etcetera.

Another widely studied question is the same but with $\mathbf F_p$ replaced by $\mathbf Q_p$; for instance the genus $1$ curve $3x^3+4y^3+5z^3=0$ in $\mathbf P^2$ is not isomorphic to its Jacobian over $\mathbf Q$ as it does not have a rational point, but they do become isomorphic over $\mathbf Q_p$ for all $p$ (including $\mathbf Q_\infty = \mathbf R$). This is a first failure of a 'local-to-global principle' (this example is due to Selmer, and launched the study of what is now called the Selmer group).

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    $\begingroup$ Thank you very much for your great answer and the counterexamples. I see the obstruction regarding Galois stuff. However, I think I'm missing the point in the first lemma: why just f = id and t = s are not suitable choices? I think I'm not understanding something in the statement... $\endgroup$
    – a_g
    Commented May 30, 2023 at 16:48
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    $\begingroup$ @a_g you also need to pick an isomorphism $\psi \colon f^*X \stackrel\sim\to f^*Y$, and that will only exist after a finitely generated extension $f \colon T \to S$. $\endgroup$ Commented May 30, 2023 at 19:42
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(I wrote this earlier and didn't finish posting it. It has some overlap with Remy's answer, but I figured it was worth posting to provide a slightly different perspective.)

No. For example the elliptic curves $y^2 = x^3 +x+1$ and $y^2= x^3 + x-1$ are isomorphic over $\mathbb C$ by $ x \mapsto -x, y \mapsto iy $ but only isomorphic over $\mathbb F_q$ if $q \equiv 1 \bmod 4$ so that a square root of $-1$ lives in $\mathbb F_q$, i.e. not just over fields of sufficiently large characteristic. This is just because elliptic curves are only isomorphic if the Weierstrass equations are related by a linear change of coordinates, and if the coefficient of $x^2=0$ this can only be scaling the coordinates, and scaling $x$ by $+1$ is the only thing that works which requires us to scale $y$ by a square root of $-1$.

These elliptic curves are also not isomorphic in the Grothendieck ring. They don't even have the same number of $\mathbb F_q$-points (for most $q$ not congruent to $1$ mod $4$). This is because the quadratic twist has the function of replacing each $x$ coordinate with two solutions $y$ by one with no solutions, and vice versa, meaning if one curve has $n$ points the other has $2(q+1)-n$ points, so they only have the same number of points if $q+1=n$, which rarely holds.

The problem here is that it's easy to produce situations where there is enough rigidity that there is an isomorphism over $\mathbb F_q$ if and only if the isomorphism over $\mathbb C$ becomes an isomorphism over $\mathbb F_q$, but if the field of definition of the isomorphism is a number field $K$, the isomorphism only extends to $\mathbb F_q$ if $\mathbb F_q$ contains one of the residue fields of $K$.

On the other hand, your last bullet point is correct (ignoring the "in the affirmative case"). One doesn't even need the "for sufficiently large characteristic" as it is included in the "extends $R$" (one can just invert small primes in $R$ to ensure only large characteristic finite fields can extend it). For an affine or projective variety, it's easy to check that an isomorphism is given by finitely many parameters (the coefficients of image under the isomorphism of the generators of one coordinate ring as polynomias in the generators of the other coordinate ring, and vice versa for the inverse map). Let $R_0$ be the ring generated by these parameters. Then there is an isomorphism between the varieties defined over $R_0$ (since the two compositions being the identities is a closed condition). Then the isomorphism also lives over each finite field that extends $R_0$.

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    $\begingroup$ Thanks a lot! I see your point, absolutely. Your last paragraph is actually exactly what I needed: To hold for all the finite fields extending a particular ring. I was absolutely too naïve to think it will hold for large characteristic. $\endgroup$
    – a_g
    Commented May 30, 2023 at 16:54
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    $\begingroup$ But it opens another question: If I have $[X] = [Y]$ in $K(Var_\mathbb{C})$, then your argument shows that $[X] = [Y]$ also holds in $K(Var_{F_q})$ for all $F_q$ extending a certain ring $R_0$. Is it possible to estimate the shape of $R_0$ from $[X]$ and $[Y]$? For instance, suppose that I know that both are polynomials in the Lefschetz "motive". Can I say something about $R_0$? Probably no apart from a coarse bound on its number of generators... $\endgroup$
    – a_g
    Commented May 30, 2023 at 16:58
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    $\begingroup$ @a_g It seems unlikely that you can deduce anything from $[X]$ and $[Y]$, rather than $X$ and $Y$ themselves, because saying that $[X]$ is equal to something is just another equality in the Grothendieck ring. Even with more normal geometric information (e.g. on the equations defining $X$ and $Y$), these results are typically very hard to make (usefully) effective. $\endgroup$
    – Will Sawin
    Commented May 30, 2023 at 17:20

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