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Joel David Hamkins
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Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space (although perhaps myMy argument is a littlesomewhat easier to see forif you consider games where the players play $0$s and $1$s, so that the payoff set is in Cantor space $2^\omega$, usingand we use the usual coin coin-flipping measureprobability measure; but an essentially similar idea works in Baire space.)

For any game with payoff set $A$, and we interpretwhere player I as trying towins if the play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ fromis in $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoringconsider the next move by player II. Thatfollowing slightly modified game $A^\ast$, which is just like $A$, except we insert insert a roundpair of dummy moves between each real roundpair of playactual moves, insisting in the dummy movesand insist that player I play a $0$ andin this dummy round, while player II can play anything. Thus, I winsa sequence or play is in the game for B by making sure topayoff set $A^\ast$ if indeed that sequence shows that player I did play a $0$ in all the dummy rounds (so every fourth digit is $0$), and otherwise paying attention only to the real moves of player II. Player II wins by ignoring thefurthermore, if we omit the dummy movesrounds entirely from the sequence, and otherwise playing aswe get a sequence in $A$. 

Thus, playing the game $B$$A^*$ is just like playing $A$, except that the play is interrupted for these silly dummy rounds. Note that player I has no incentive not determinedto play a $0$ on those rounds, since fromand player II's plays in the dummy rounds are ignored entirely.

Thus, it is clear that a player has a winning strategy for $B$ for either player we could make $A$ if and only if he or she has a winning strategy for $A^\ast$, since we can translate the strategies from $A$ by inventing appropriateto $A^\ast$ and back again. The dummy movesrounds really don't change the difficulty of winning the game. 

But meanwhile,the point now is that because every fourth digit of all those inserted $A^\ast$ is $0$s, every sequence init follows that $B$$A^\ast$ has every forth digitmeasure $0$, and so the measure of. $B$(Every time you insist that a particular digit is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set$0$, it cuts the measure in half again.)

This argumentThe conclusion, therefore, which does not seem to use AC, but only the existenceaxiom of choice, is that if there is a non-determined set, then there is a non-determined set with measure $0$. In particular, there is a non-determined set that is measurable.

Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space (although perhaps my argument is a little easier to see for Cantor space, using the usual coin-flipping measure), and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. That is, we insert a round of dummy moves between each real round of play, insisting in the dummy moves that I play $0$ and II can play anything. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ in the dummy rounds, and otherwise paying attention only to the real moves of player II. Player II wins by ignoring the dummy moves, and otherwise playing as in $A$. Thus, the game $B$ is not determined, since from a strategy for $B$ for either player we could make a strategy for $A$ by inventing appropriate dummy moves. But meanwhile, because of all those inserted $0$s, every sequence in $B$ has every forth digit $0$, and so the measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set.

This argument does not seem to use AC, but only the existence of a non-determined set.

(My argument is somewhat easier if you consider games where the players play $0$s and $1$s, so that the payoff set is in Cantor space $2^\omega$, and we use the usual coin-flipping probability measure; but an essentially similar idea works in Baire space.)

For any game with payoff set $A$, where player I wins if the play is in $A$, consider the following slightly modified game $A^\ast$, which is just like $A$, except we insert a pair of dummy moves between each pair of actual moves, and insist that player I play a $0$ in this dummy round, while player II can play anything. Thus, a sequence or play is in the payoff set $A^\ast$ if indeed that sequence shows that player I did play a $0$ in all the dummy rounds (so every fourth digit is $0$), and furthermore, if we omit the dummy rounds entirely from the sequence, we get a sequence in $A$. 

Thus, playing the game $A^*$ is just like playing $A$, except that the play is interrupted for these silly dummy rounds. Note that player I has no incentive not to play a $0$ on those rounds, and player II's plays in the dummy rounds are ignored entirely.

Thus, it is clear that a player has a winning strategy for $A$ if and only if he or she has a winning strategy for $A^\ast$, since we can translate the strategies from $A$ to $A^\ast$ and back again. The dummy rounds really don't change the difficulty of winning the game. 

But the point now is that because every fourth digit of $A^\ast$ is $0$, it follows that $A^\ast$ has measure $0$. (Every time you insist that a particular digit is $0$, it cuts the measure in half again.)

The conclusion, therefore, which does not use the axiom of choice, is that if there is a non-determined set, then there is a non-determined set with measure $0$. In particular, there is a non-determined set that is measurable.

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Joel David Hamkins
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Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space (although perhaps my argument is a little easier to see for Cantor space, using the usual coin-flipping measure), and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. That is, we insert a round of dummy moves between each real round of play, insisting in the dummy moves that I play $0$ and II can play anything. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ every other timein the dummy rounds, and otherwise paying attention only to every other movethe real moves of player II. Player II wins by ignoring every other movethe dummy moves, and otherwise playing as in $A$. Thus, the game $B$ is not determined, since from a stratwgystrategy for $B$ for either player we could make a strategy for $A$ by inventing appropriate dummy moves. But meanwhile, because of all those inserted $0$s, every sequence in $B$ has every forth digit $0$, and so the measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set.

This argument does not seem to use AC, but only the existence of a non-determined set.

Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space, and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ every other time, and otherwise paying attention only to every other move of II. Player II wins by ignoring every other move, and otherwise playing as in $A$. Thus, the game $B$ is not determined, since from a stratwgy for $B$ we could make a strategy for $A$. But meanwhile, because of all those inserted $0$s, the measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set.

This argument does not seem to use AC, but only the existence of a non-determined set.

Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space (although perhaps my argument is a little easier to see for Cantor space, using the usual coin-flipping measure), and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. That is, we insert a round of dummy moves between each real round of play, insisting in the dummy moves that I play $0$ and II can play anything. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ in the dummy rounds, and otherwise paying attention only to the real moves of player II. Player II wins by ignoring the dummy moves, and otherwise playing as in $A$. Thus, the game $B$ is not determined, since from a strategy for $B$ for either player we could make a strategy for $A$ by inventing appropriate dummy moves. But meanwhile, because of all those inserted $0$s, every sequence in $B$ has every forth digit $0$, and so the measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set.

This argument does not seem to use AC, but only the existence of a non-determined set.

Post Undeleted by Joel David Hamkins
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The usual proofSuppose that there are$A$ is a non-determined sets isset in Baire space, and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a diagonalization against all possible strategiesnew set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ every other time, and otherwise paying attention only to every other move of II. Player II wins by ignoring every other move, and otherwise playing as in this proof one can ensure that$A$. Thus, the resulting non-determined setgame $B$ is contained withinnot determined, saysince from a stratwgy for $B$ we could make a strategy for $A$. But meanwhile, the Cantor setbecause of all those inserted $0$s, which hasthe measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set. Thus

This argument does not seem to use AC, one can findbut only the existence of a non-determined set that has measure zero and in particular is measurable.

The usual proof that there are non-determined sets is a diagonalization against all possible strategies, and in this proof one can ensure that the resulting non-determined set is contained within, say, the Cantor set, which has measure zero. Thus, one can find a non-determined set that has measure zero and in particular is measurable.

Suppose that $A$ is a non-determined set in Baire space, and we interpret player I as trying to play into $A$. Let's build a new set $B$ from $A$ by inserting a $0$ into every other play by player I, and ignoring the next move by player II. Thus, I wins the game for B by making sure to play a $0$ every other time, and otherwise paying attention only to every other move of II. Player II wins by ignoring every other move, and otherwise playing as in $A$. Thus, the game $B$ is not determined, since from a stratwgy for $B$ we could make a strategy for $A$. But meanwhile, because of all those inserted $0$s, the measure of $B$ is zero, and so $B$ is a measurable set.

This argument does not seem to use AC, but only the existence of a non-determined set.

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Joel David Hamkins
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