Timeline for Undergraduate math research
Current License: CC BY-SA 2.5
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 27, 2013 at 1:26 | comment | added | paul garrett | Although this answer was a bit harsh, perhaps caricatured, it does touch on a fundamental disconnect, a fundamental semantic problem, in all these discussions. Of course the 1-in-1000 (or whatever number you like) undergrad, who has taken grad courses and/or read more than most grads ever learn, can "do research", but ... no, if you don't know anything, you can't really do meaningful research. You can engage, and become more aware, if you are interested, yes. | |
| Nov 18, 2010 at 21:52 | comment | added | Tyler Clark | (in regards to the "bugging" comment) - I believe professors should be there to help their students succeed no matter what year they are in college. Perhaps the students cannot do everything the professor can do, but until someone takes the initiative to help the student learn, this growth will probably never occur for the student. It is the duty of mathematics professors to instill a curiosity upon their students and to guide them, helping them learn outside of the classroom and preparing them for their future career as a mathematician. | |
| Nov 17, 2010 at 9:41 | comment | added | Zen Harper | ...by the way, surely I'm not the only person who had horrifying nightmares from end-of-year exam revision? I vaguely remember one about being chased by a huge non-sparse matrix throwing sharp pointy eigenvectors at me, like spears or arrows (I'm completely serious!) I'm sure there were many other similar ones, but I don't remember the details. Even though it's been more than ten years, the memories of some of those horrible exams can still send a shiver down my spine, unlike almost anything else (including my Ph.D.) But (I thought) that's the whole point! Hard, intensive training!! | |
| Nov 17, 2010 at 9:33 | comment | added | Zen Harper | About the line: "frankly, students need to do something over the summer". Usually, the main term time undergraduate teaching, together with the end-of-year exams, are so intensive, agonising and exhausting that students NEED the whole summer to recover for the next year! But if this does not apply to a particular student, then (in my opinion), either (a) that student is exceptionally strong, or (b) they should have gone to a higher level, more intensive university suited to them (depending on the level of the student). Undergraduate mathematics is (or, at least, should be) PAIN!!!!! | |
| Nov 13, 2010 at 23:16 | comment | added | José Figueroa-O'Farrill | @Yemon: it depends what you mean by term time. Teaching in Edinburgh goes from mid-September to end of March. (I'm not proud of this, but it's a fact.) Exams finish at the end of May. So there's nothing between end of May and mid-September, unless the students are top of their cohort, in which case we give them the opportunity of a "vacation scholarship" to work with a lecturer,... on some research-like project. That is purely optional, of course, although most of them do take up the offer. | |
| Nov 13, 2010 at 1:02 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | Picking up on Ben's line that "frankly, students need to do something over the summer" - I was quite surprised when I first moved to Canada that the academic year finishes by the end of April. In England (and I suspect in Scotland too) the term would go until July, with scary end-of-year exams in June; not much room or desire for undergraduate project work. Moreover, there was a slight unspoken feeling in the air when I was in Fenland that research-level maths people was for those predestined to be geniuses, and if you weren't as smart as them then why bother? | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 22:50 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | Another +1 to Peter -- I was beginning to suspect something along these lines myself. Although I was brought up in the US, it's my impression that there is overall less of a social gap between professors and aspiring students (graduate students especially, but extending to undergraduates) in the US than there is in many other countries, or at least it's easier for a student to make personal contact. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 18:22 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | +1 to Peter's remark (speaking as a fellow export from the Fens). | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 17:46 | comment | added | Ben Webster♦ | -1: This answer latches on to one fact about the student while ignoring another big one: the OP is in a structured program, not just doing this on a lark. You can, of course, doubt whether that program will produce very high quality research; I think most of us do. But that's not really the point of such programs. They're mainly aimed at grad school preparation/promotion. Frankly, students need to do something over the summer, and they may as well have a experience that shows them mathematics from another angle than just the classroom. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 17:40 | comment | added | Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine | As per my comment on Ben Webster’s answer, I think this may be a bit of a culture clash. Zen Harper’s view is absolutely what I was “brought up with” in the UK, and is widely held in at least some circles there; in the US, expectations are completely different, and there is an established culture of undergrad research that makes it much more achievable. I don't know much about other countries. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 16:25 | comment | added | Dan Ramras | The attitude in this answer seems very counterproductive for any professor who would like to involve undergraduates in research. Juniors at this level go to REU programs all the time. One does not have to be extremely advanced to get into an REU program (and you can't go to an REU program after graduating, so juniors are the older students at REUs). On the other hand, to get into a good REU program one at least needs good grades in these basic math-major courses. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 15:07 | history | made wiki | Post Made Community Wiki by S. Carnahan♦ | ||
| Nov 12, 2010 at 14:56 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | Agree with BCnrd. "like you might be the kind of student that irritates professors, always bugging them and asking them questions about their own research, but lacking the knowledge to understand the answers" - isn't that reading a bit much into it? OP said "research at the undergraduate level", which I take to mean investigations into subjects he finds attractive, not publishing in the Annals as an undergraduate. Also, "their lecture courses should already provide you with all you need" - are books and papers all that pros need? One-on-one conversation is something we all benefit from. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 14:20 | comment | added | BCnrd | The down vote might have been because the same thoughts could have been conveyed in a much more polite manner (just a guess). | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 14:20 | comment | added | Joel David Hamkins | I think it is possible to find a suitable project for a math-interested student at any level. For example, I would be happy to discuss calculus with any ten-year-old who was interested enough to learn about it; it would be an excuse to talk about graphs and rates of change and the concept of limits and the effect of minute changes. One can explain a part of these ideas even to someone with little background. Similarly, one can find an interesting suitable project for an undergraduate. The surreal numbers, for example, would be an attractive topic at the boundary of algebra and game theory. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 12:51 | comment | added | timur | +1 to Zen Harper's answer and + to the comment of Douglas S. Stones. | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 12:38 | comment | added | Douglas S. Stones | +1: Why was this answer down-voted? Are you suggesting that juniors are ready to do research? | |
| Nov 12, 2010 at 9:55 | history | answered | Zen Harper | CC BY-SA 2.5 |