Timeline for Coming out as transgender in the mathematical community
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
66 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Nov 22, 2023 at 12:01 | review | Close votes | |||
| Nov 25, 2023 at 8:53 | |||||
| Dec 4, 2017 at 3:05 | review | Close votes | |||
| Dec 4, 2017 at 15:32 | |||||
| Nov 29, 2017 at 23:22 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | @DylanThurston It's one of my jobs as moderator to seek conflict resolution when tempers flare at MO, and I am committed to that. In return, I ask for at least some benefit of the doubt that I am trying to do the right thing here (even while I acknowledge that sometimes I might make mistakes). Please also feel free to write me or any of the moderators through a private email, where we would try to get things sorted out. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 23:19 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | @DylanThurston Properly speaking your concern is a meta concern. If you are seriously worried that my action here (editing out parts of Autumn's comment which I thought were uncivil) constitutes censorship, then you can open a meta post where Autumn would be invited to repost her comment in full. (We could even ask Community Management to help with that.) Then I would be happy to have an open discussion about just how grievously I was suppressing a transgender voice. (I thought I was just trying to deal with a "rude or abusive" flag, in keeping with a general rule of keeping discourse civil.) | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 19:07 | comment | added | Dylan Thurston | The censorship of comments also strikes me as very problematic. I'm furthermore disturbed by how much an interloper in the math community appears to have derailed the conversation. I will be voting for the question to be reopened if it gets closed yet again. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 18:59 | comment | added | Tom Goodwillie | I see that there are 4 votes to close, and I gather that the question has already been closed and reopened more than once. Please, people, let's leave it open. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 18:34 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | @AutumnKent Again, it was not my intent to silence you. You added back in the word 'transantagonistic' and, on reflection, I'm letting it stand. I commend you for speaking up. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 18:29 | comment | added | Autumn Kent | @ToddTrimble More important than decorum in discussions like this is not actually silencing the marginalized people that are most relevant to the discussion itself. It doesn't help mathoverflow be inclusive to let harmful comments stand and censor marginalized people that criticize them. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 18:13 | comment | added | Joseph Van Name | I have voted to close this question. It is off-topic. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 18:06 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | @AutumnKent I'm sorry that my action upset you; I concurred with the flag that your comment was overly strongly worded and so I did a little editing, trying to preserve its gist. I'm happy to let your current comment stand unedited (although another moderator might feel differently.) | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 17:53 | comment | added | Autumn Kent | @ToddTrimble Again, user3685427's comments are transantagonistic. You've erased that from my comment. You are censoring one of the only trans women here and supressing her comments calling out transantagonism. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 13:02 | comment | added | Todd Trimble | Everyone: I've edited some comments that were labeled "rude or abusive". I realize that people may feel very passionately about the issues raised, but especially in a thread of this nature, it's important to avoid what may look like personal attacks. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 1:23 | comment | added | Autumn Kent | @user3685427 A trans person's name is much more than a mere identifier. There are lots of reasons to change your name if you are trans, which should be obvious on reflection. | |
| Nov 28, 2017 at 23:06 | comment | added | user3685427 | @StevenStadnicki I would say that easing the ability for colleges to cite and recognize your work is the opposite of suppression. An academic's career is determined largely by their published work - which is tied entirely to their name. It's an issue that women can easily face if they change their last name when they get married, and hence many chose to hyphenate their last name, or not change their last name at all. Perhaps it wasn't clear that the name aspects of my comment were written strictly with that regard. A name is an identifier; nothing more. | |
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:56 | vote | accept | Rdmv | ||
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:56 | vote | accept | Rdmv | ||
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:56 | |||||
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:53 | comment | added | Rdmv | Thanks to every people who contacted me. I'm quite busy these days and I got a lot of answers so it will perhaps take me some time to answer everyone, but really, every answer has been a great help for me. Thank you very much. | |
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:51 | comment | added | Rdmv | I agree with @StevenStadnicki. Anyways that's not too violent for me since my choosen name is a deformation of my birth name, but it's not the same for every trans person and it can sometimes be harmful for them to hear that. Also, I'm french and I think that french names are much more gendered than english ones, so for most french trans people, keeping their birth name is just not an option. | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 20:50 | comment | added | Steven Stadnicki | @user3685427 I'm sure you intend your answer to be helpful, but you should be aware that what you're talking about amounts to suppression or (to phrase it a bit more dramatically) erasure; you're essentially suggesting that OP minimize the expression of her gender and her identity as much as she can, and for many transfolk this is actively harmful to their mental health. | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 15:49 | comment | added | user3685427 | I'm in the US, and I think that it wouldn't be an issue in the US or Canada, as long as you don't make it an issue. People care primarily about your work, and then how good you are to work with. I would suggest that you keep your first name, use a gender-changed version of it (Tom to Tomi for example), or at least keep the first initial - even if it requires a less-common spelling for the first initial (like Chris to Christy). It may also be useful to include your middle name or at minimum your middle initial. In fact, there's no reason you need to change your name at all if you don't want to. | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 14:43 | comment | added | Vladimir Dotsenko | FWIW, my own first step with all job applications in the past was to consult pages like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory for up to date info on anti-discrimination laws. The next step was to go the website of the corresponding university and look at their policies (discrimination, bullying, dignity and respect), and also see if they have a network/alliance for LGBT students and staff members (this latter thing is not always crucial, but it is helpful to get some idea of the work environment). | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 14:40 | comment | added | Vladimir Dotsenko | I strongly believe that this question should not be closed. It is a valid career advice question where maths-specific advice is being asked for. There are already examples like mathoverflow.net/questions/116309/… where the impact of personal life circumstances on one's career as a mathematician is discussed, and no one proposes to close those. | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 13:56 | answer | added | Douglas Lind | timeline score: 38 | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 10:09 | history | edited | psmears | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Improve grammar and wording
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| Nov 27, 2017 at 9:48 | history | protected | Asaf Karagila♦ | ||
| Nov 27, 2017 at 9:35 | comment | added | David | Forwarded this to a trans man who is working in an applied informatics research institute in Stuttgart Germany. | |
| Nov 27, 2017 at 2:41 | review | Close votes | |||
| Nov 27, 2017 at 15:15 | |||||
| Nov 27, 2017 at 2:25 | comment | added | Vladimir Dotsenko | The following may be useful: 1. blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/06/28/… 2. ostem.org 3. lgbtphysicists.org 4. campusprideindex.org | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 21:29 | comment | added | Jim Humphreys | Concerning name changes in publications, this is a standard problem with databases like MathSciNet (who are asked to cope with the fact that some women adopt their husband's name after marriage while continuing to publish: thus Ranee Gupta became R.K. Brylinski). The people who manage such databases are usually quite helpful if there is confusion. Anyway, I'm sympathetic to leaving the question open (for a limited time, in community-wiki format), having had struggles of my own about being gay. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 20:50 | comment | added | Gerhard Paseman | I agree with Noah Snyder, in that the question is off topic, that an exception should be made so as to gather useful responses, and that it should be left open to do so. I disagree with Noah Snyder in that it should be left open in perpetuity, and that there should be room for many exceptions. I think there should be few exceptions, and that this question should be closed soon so as to prevent more off-topic posts associated with this question. In particular, I am concerned about potential responses which are extremely negative. Gerhard "Two Answers Can Be Enough" Paseman, 2017.11.26. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 19:18 | comment | added | Paul Siegel | I don't have any practical information to contribute, but I'm sorry this is so hard and dangerous, and I hope you are able to find a satisfactory solution. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 19:11 | comment | added | D. Savitt | Regarding the old papers issue, MathSciNet staff can link publications by the same author under different names (so that when you click on either one of the names all the publications will come up). | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 18:41 | history | reopened |
Mark Wildon Dylan Wilson Noah Snyder Autumn Kent Jim Conant |
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| Nov 26, 2017 at 17:42 | comment | added | Noah Snyder | I think we should be wise enough to sometimes make exceptions for important questions that might technically be off-topic, and I think this question is one of those cases. Closing it doesn't really do much, and leaving it open might really help some people. Voting to reopen. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 14:58 | review | Reopen votes | |||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 18:16 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 14:01 | history | closed |
David Handelman Joseph Van Name R W Friedrich Knop Alexandre Eremenko |
Not suitable for this site | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 10:23 | comment | added | Rdmv | @TheoJohnson-Freyd Yes, I agree with you. At least two people contacted me, and now I also have got the contact of the association Spectra I didn't know, so I think that will be enough. But thank you very much for your proposal. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 10:10 | vote | accept | Rdmv | ||
| Nov 28, 2017 at 0:56 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 4:42 | comment | added | Virgo | The following blog may be useful: leftytgirl.wordpress.com | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 3:51 | comment | added | Autumn Kent | @Rdmv I'm a trans woman working in math in the US. I'm sending you a message. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 3:35 | comment | added | Theo Johnson-Freyd | ... touch. As is likely also true for you, the trans mathematicians that I know are proud of their struggles and eager to advance trans causes and help other trans mathematicians, but also they are mathematicians first, members of marginalized communities second, so I don't just want to blast them with a "you're trans, therefore should focus on this MO post rather than research" email. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 3:30 | comment | added | Theo Johnson-Freyd | @Rdmv I wish you the best of luck. I don't know what it's like to transition or to come out at the end of graduate school, so I can't answer your direct questions. My experience of American universities is that they are quite open and accepting. (But I recognize that white cis gays face a lot less discrimination, both subtle and overt, than do other marginalized groups.) I know personally a couple trans mathematicians. I'm going to assume that they have seen this post and reached out to you, but if that assumption is wrong then please let email me and I will ask them if I may put you in ... | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 3:19 | comment | added | Theo Johnson-Freyd | Tyler's answer is, I think, a good enough reason that this question should remain open: I did not know about that organization, and am glad to learn of it, and would not had the question been exported to academia.SE. (That said, a related question there, especially with links between them, could also be quite valuable.) | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 2:22 | history | made wiki | Post Made Community Wiki by Todd Trimble | ||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 2:20 | answer | added | Tyler Lawson | timeline score: 97 | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 2:08 | comment | added | Joe Silverman | @TylerLawson I'd suggest that you rewrite your comment as an answer. Then Rdmv can accept it as an answer, which will make it much more easily accessible, rather then having it buried in the morass of comments. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:57 | comment | added | Rdmv | @TylerLawsonThanks soooo much! I was dreaming such a community exists but I didn't know it did. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:54 | comment | added | Tyler Lawson | @Rdmv Perhaps you might be able to find some people who can help with your questions here: lgbtmath.org | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:49 | review | Close votes | |||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 14:02 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:33 | history | reopened |
Benjamin Dickman Joseph O'Rourke fedja Gjergji Zaimi Michael Greinecker |
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| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:20 | comment | added | fedja | Voting to reopen as well. Community Wiki is also a good idea. Good luck and remember that you will find a lot of helpful and supportive people even among "white male chauvinists" (by the modern liberal classification) like myself if you stay friendly and reasonable with them. Of course, you may still face problems but at least in the USA there are quite strong laws on your side and a lot of official LGBT organizations you can contact for support. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:18 | review | Reopen votes | |||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:33 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 1:05 | comment | added | Gene S. Kopp | OP is a professional mathematician asking for career advice from professional mathematicians, so her question is most appropriate for MO rather than academia.SE. Similar career-related questions have not been closed in the past. This question should be re-opened (and probably made community wiki). | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:52 | history | closed |
Steven Landsburg Gabriel C. Drummond-Cole Leo Alonso Andy Putman R. van Dobben de Bruyn |
Not suitable for this site | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:33 | comment | added | Gene S. Kopp | I am cisgender, but I know one trans man who's a math PhD student at a US university, and another mathematician (also at a US university) who knows a lot about trans issues and might be able to give you other contacts. You may contact me by email at [email protected]. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:31 | comment | added | Rdmv | @JosephO'Rourke Done, I added an e-mail adress at the end of my question. Sorry for forgetting. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:30 | history | edited | Rdmv | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 62 characters in body
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| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:23 | comment | added | Martin Sleziak | To add to Yemon Choi's response, there already is this question on academia.SE: Typical experiences of transgender people in academia? | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:22 | review | Close votes | |||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:52 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:21 | comment | added | Joseph O'Rourke | It would be useful if you could indicate some route to contact you privately. Right now, "this user prefers to keep an air of mystery about them," so every response must be public. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:21 | comment | added | Rdmv | @YemonChoi Indeed, you should never disclose the identity of a trans person without their agreement. And I didn't know academia.SE, thanks for the advice, I will ask the question there. | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:17 | comment | added | Rdmv | @StanleyYaoXiao Thanks for your advice, I will try to find such pages for other universities. Although, of course, even if a given university has a good policy regarding trans people, that doesn't mean that it's the same for all researchers working there... | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:12 | comment | added | Stanley Yao Xiao | Although this is not a question about research level mathematics which is usually the expectation here, I believe this question is very important. I do not have much to offer except to point out that most universities/departments have an explicit page where issues of equality are addressed. For example, the University of Oxford has the following page: admin.ox.ac.uk/eop | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:12 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | I am aware of some trans (women) users on academia.SE, in math(s)-related areas, but I am hesitant to name names. I do think that academia.SE would be both a more appropriate place for this question, and would give a better chance of reaching users who can give either lived or observed advice | |
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:01 | review | First posts | |||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:12 | |||||
| Nov 26, 2017 at 0:01 | history | asked | Rdmv | CC BY-SA 3.0 |