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Zuhair Al-Johar
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Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

added 210 characters in body
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Zuhair Al-Johar
  • 11.3k
  • 1
  • 13
  • 47

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory:" "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory:"$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

added 210 characters in body
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Zuhair Al-Johar
  • 11.3k
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Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Limitation of size}+\text{Subsets}-\text{Union}$:"$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory "$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Limitation of size}+\text{Subsets}-\text{Union}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union are known to be redundant.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

Let $\mathsf{MK^-}$ be the theory:"$\mathsf{MK}-\text{Foundation}-\text{Limitation of size}-\text{Union}+\text{Subsets}$", where $\mathsf{MK}$ is Morse-Kelley set theory with axioms mentioned in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse%E2%80%93Kelley_set_theory

Of course axioms of pairing and union and one direction of axiom of limitation of size are known to be redundant with this specific formulation of $\mathsf{MK}$.

Removal of axiom of limitation of size and putting the axiom of subsets (the axiom asserting that every subclass of a set is a set) instead of it would make it possible for some classes to be equinumerous to sets and yet not being sets, since it is known that the axiom of subsets does not imply the assertion that every class that is equinumerous to a set is a set. So is it possible to have a model $M$ of $\mathsf{MK^-}$ such that we have all of the followings?

$M \vdash \exists P (\text {$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V)$
$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x\in V (\text{$P$ is equinumerous to x}))$

where "<" denotes "strict subnumerousity" defined in the customary manner; and $V$ is the class of all sets. Given that, it is clear that $M$ cannot satisfy global choice nor can it satisfy closure of replacement over sets. The general context of this question is about size of proper classes and to what extent that can be shared with size of sets in absence of Replacement and global choice.

Also related to this is the following question:

If the above is possible then can we add the following:

$M \vdash \forall P (\text{$P$ is a proper class} \wedge P < V \implies \exists x \in V (x=\{\{y\}| y \in P\}))$

The special context of those questions raised when I was investigating an alternative to the axiom of limitation of size of $\mathsf{MK}$. A version that I've lately posted to FOM thread is referred to by the following link:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2016-September/020073.html

This version proves all axioms of Empty set, Pairing, Power, Separation (subsets), Replacement, Limitation of size, Global choice and Set union, so it is more powerful than the usual limitation of size axiom.

I've been trying to further simplify this axiom to the following:

$\forall x (x \in V \iff U(x) < V)$

However I couldn't prove Replacement nor union, so I was left with the above situation (i.e., theory $\mathsf{MK^-}$); so if the possibilities that I've asked about specifically above were inconsistent then this would mean that this axiom can be simplified to the above version.

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the claim is putting in formulas to avoid confusion, and addition question was posed to expand on the subject.
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Post Closed as "Needs details or clarity" by Andrés E. Caicedo, Jan-Christoph Schlage-Puchta, Stefan Kohl, Wolfgang, user1688
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