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Will Sawin
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Using Fourier analysis in the $d$ variable, we can get the optimal upper bound. As in Tao's argument, if there is a distribution of sequences for which each pair is $r$-probably increasing, there must be a single sequence $d_i$ : such that:

$$\sum_{1\leq a <b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} >(1+ o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

We may rewrite the left hand side as:

$$\sum_{1\leq a ,b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} 1_{a<b}$$

Now use the "carrying the 1" decomposition:

$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \mod n}{n}$$$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \operatorname{mod} n}{n}$$

The first two terms are pretty simple. The first term is:

$$\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} \frac{d_j}{n} = \sum_{1 \leq j \leq k} \frac{d_j}{n} \log \left( \frac{j}{k-j} \right) \approx k $$

and the second term is similar.

Now we've replaced $1_{a<b}$ with a convolution operator. So let's take the discrete Fourier transform:

$$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right) \left( \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right)$$

By the Hilbert transform inequality:

$$\left|\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right)\right| \leq \pi k$$

So the bound is

$$\frac{\pi k}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1}\left| \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right| \approx \frac{\pi k}{n} \sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \frac{n}{2 \pi \min(\xi,n-\xi)} \approx k \log n$$

This gives:

$$k \log n > (1+o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

Hence:

$$n \approx k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$$$n > k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$

Note that the base notation trick in the original post allows us to remove the $o(1)$ in the exponent bound by amplification.


Here is the matching lower bound:

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

 

This strongly suggests thatAn explanation of why $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spendspends an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

Using Fourier analysis in the $d$ variable, we can get the optimal upper bound. As in Tao's argument, if there is a distribution of sequences for which each pair is $r$-probably increasing, there must be a single sequence $d_i$ : such that:

$$\sum_{1\leq a <b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} >(1+ o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

We may rewrite the left hand side as:

$$\sum_{1\leq a ,b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} 1_{a<b}$$

Now use the "carrying the 1" decomposition:

$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \mod n}{n}$$

The first two terms are pretty simple. The first term is:

$$\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} \frac{d_j}{n} = \sum_{1 \leq j \leq k} \frac{d_j}{n} \log \left( \frac{j}{k-j} \right) \approx k $$

and the second term is similar.

Now we've replaced $1_{a<b}$ with a convolution operator. So let's take the discrete Fourier transform:

$$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right) \left( \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right)$$

By the Hilbert transform inequality:

$$\left|\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right)\right| \leq \pi k$$

So the bound is

$$\frac{\pi k}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1}\left| \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right| \approx \frac{\pi k}{n} \sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \frac{n}{2 \pi \min(\xi,n-\xi)} \approx k \log n$$

This gives:

$$k \log n > (1+o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

Hence:

$$n \approx k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$


Here is the matching lower bound:

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

This strongly suggests that $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

Using Fourier analysis in the $d$ variable, we can get the optimal upper bound. As in Tao's argument, if there is a distribution of sequences for which each pair is $r$-probably increasing, there must be a single sequence $d_i$ : such that:

$$\sum_{1\leq a <b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} >(1+ o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

We may rewrite the left hand side as:

$$\sum_{1\leq a ,b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} 1_{a<b}$$

Now use the "carrying the 1" decomposition:

$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \operatorname{mod} n}{n}$$

The first two terms are pretty simple. The first term is:

$$\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} \frac{d_j}{n} = \sum_{1 \leq j \leq k} \frac{d_j}{n} \log \left( \frac{j}{k-j} \right) \approx k $$

and the second term is similar.

Now we've replaced $1_{a<b}$ with a convolution operator. So let's take the discrete Fourier transform:

$$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right) \left( \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right)$$

By the Hilbert transform inequality:

$$\left|\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right)\right| \leq \pi k$$

So the bound is

$$\frac{\pi k}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1}\left| \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right| \approx \frac{\pi k}{n} \sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \frac{n}{2 \pi \min(\xi,n-\xi)} \approx k \log n$$

This gives:

$$k \log n > (1+o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

Hence:

$$n > k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$

Note that the base notation trick in the original post allows us to remove the $o(1)$ in the exponent bound by amplification.


Here is the matching lower bound:

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

 

An explanation of why $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method spends an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

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Will Sawin
  • 148.8k
  • 9
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  • 563

Using Fourier analysis in the $d$ variable, we can get the optimal upper bound. As in Tao's argument, if there is a distribution of sequences for which each pair is $r$-probably increasing, there must be a single sequence $d_i$ : such that:

$$\sum_{1\leq a <b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} >(1+ o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

We may rewrite the left hand side as:

$$\sum_{1\leq a ,b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} 1_{a<b}$$

Now use the "carrying the 1" decomposition:

$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \mod n}{n}$$

The first two terms are pretty simple. The first term is:

$$\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} \frac{d_j}{n} = \sum_{1 \leq j \leq k} \frac{d_j}{n} \log \left( \frac{j}{k-j} \right) \approx k $$

and the second term is similar.

Now we've replaced $1_{a<b}$ with a convolution operator. So let's take the discrete Fourier transform:

$$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right) \left( \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right)$$

By the Hilbert transform inequality:

$$\left|\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right)\right| \leq \pi k$$

So the bound is

$$\frac{\pi k}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1}\left| \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right| \approx \frac{\pi k}{n} \sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \frac{n}{2 \pi \min(\xi,n-\xi)} \approx k \log n$$

This gives:

$$k \log n > (1+o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

Hence:

$$n \approx k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$


Here is the matching lower bound:

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

This strongly suggests that $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

This strongly suggests that $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

Using Fourier analysis in the $d$ variable, we can get the optimal upper bound. As in Tao's argument, if there is a distribution of sequences for which each pair is $r$-probably increasing, there must be a single sequence $d_i$ : such that:

$$\sum_{1\leq a <b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} >(1+ o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

We may rewrite the left hand side as:

$$\sum_{1\leq a ,b \leq n} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} 1_{d_i = a} 1_{d_j=b} 1_{a<b}$$

Now use the "carrying the 1" decomposition:

$$ 1_{a<b} = \frac{b}{n} - \frac{a}{n} + \frac{ a-b \mod n}{n}$$

The first two terms are pretty simple. The first term is:

$$\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} \frac{d_j}{n} = \sum_{1 \leq j \leq k} \frac{d_j}{n} \log \left( \frac{j}{k-j} \right) \approx k $$

and the second term is similar.

Now we've replaced $1_{a<b}$ with a convolution operator. So let's take the discrete Fourier transform:

$$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right) \left( \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right)$$

By the Hilbert transform inequality:

$$\left|\sum_{1 \leq i,j \leq k, i\neq j} \frac{1}{j-i} e\left( \frac{d_j \xi}{n}\right) e\left( \frac{- d_i \xi}{n}\right)\right| \leq \pi k$$

So the bound is

$$\frac{\pi k}{n}\sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1}\left| \sum_{x=0}^{n-1} \frac{x}{n} e \left( \frac{x \xi}{n} \right)\right| \approx \frac{\pi k}{n} \sum_{0 \leq \xi \leq n-1} \frac{n}{2 \pi \min(\xi,n-\xi)} \approx k \log n$$

This gives:

$$k \log n > (1+o(1)) (2r-1) k \log k$$

Hence:

$$n \approx k^{ 2r-1 +o(1) }$$


Here is the matching lower bound:

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

This strongly suggests that $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

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Will Sawin
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I think we can do better. I will describe different strategies where the probabilitySuppose that $d_i > d_j$ depends only on $i-j$. Then by choosing a weighted average, we will give a lower bound for this probability greater thanI have two sequences of $1/2$$k$ numbers, despite the fact that the lengthone of the sequencewhich is around $n^2$.

First, if $k \leq mn-m+1$, then we take $d_i = \lceil \frac{i+e}{m} \rceil$ for a randomsequence of numbers from $e \in [0,\dots, m-1]$. Then if$1$ to $j>i$, the probability$n_1$ that $d_j>d_i$ is increasing with probability $\min ( \frac{j-i}{m},1)$.

To complement it$r_1$, we wantand one which is a sequence where the probability thatfrom $d_j>d_i$ is close$1$ to $1$ for$n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $j-i$ small$r_2$. We can do the first part by setting $d_i = i+e$ modFor any fraction $n$ for again$a/b$, I can construct a randomsequence of $n$. However, it declines to$k^b$ numbers from $0$ for$1$ to $j-i$ large, so the best we can get by averaging$n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $1/2$.$\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

We will do better using more randomization to change the rate of growth. FixWrite a natural number from $l$ and let$1$ to $\alpha$ be a random real number$k^b$ in base $[0,l]$ and$k$ notation as $\beta$ a random real number in$b$ numbers from $[0,n]$$1$ to $k$. DefineChoose randomly $d_i = \lfloor \alpha i + \beta \rfloor$ mod$a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $n$. Then fixing$1$ to $\alpha$$n_1$. For the rest, apply the probability thatsecond sequence, getting a number from $d_j < d_i$

$$f ( \alpha (j-i) \mod n)$$

where$1$ to $f(x)= (1-1/n) x$ for$n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $x \in [0,1]$ and$1$ to $1- x/n$ for$n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ $x \in [1,n]$(generalizing base notation).

So the relevant probability is:

$$ \frac{1}{l} \int_0^l f ( \alpha (j-i) \mod n)) d \alpha$$

The probability $\alpha(j-i)$ is in the interval For any two numbers $[0,1]$ modulo$i$ and $n$$j$, is clearly at most $1/l$consider the first place where they are not equal. So we may replace $f(x)$ withIn that place, $1-x/n$ and only lose$j$ must be larger than $1/r$$i$. Another way of writing $1 - \frac{ x \mod n}{n}$$d_j$ is equal to $1- \operatorname{frac} \left( \frac{x}{n} \right)$

$$ \int_0^l \left( 1- \operatorname{frac}\left(\frac{\alpha (j-i)}{n} \right) \right) d \alpha$$

Using the trivial bound$d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $ \operatorname{frac}(x) \leq x$,$d_j> d_i$ in this isplace, $\geq 1 - \frac{l}{2}(j-i)$$d_j>d_i$.

It is also easy to see The probability that it is greater in this place is always at least $1/2$. This is because the average value of $1- \frac{x}$ on the whole interval $[0,1]$ is $1/2$,$r_1$ if this number was chosen and the largest values come first$r_2$ if it wasn't, so averaging over any subinterval starting at $0$ produces a larger average.

So we have another strategy where the total probability that $d_j-d_i$ is at least

$$\max( 1- \frac{l}{2} \frac{j-i}{n}, 1/2) - \frac{1}{l}$$ $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

SettingThis shows that we can take $m=n/r$, in our previous strategy the probability was at least:

$$\min( l \frac{j-i}{n}, 1) $$

Choosing$k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a linear combination ofconvex function $2/3$ this strategy$f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $1/3$ the previous$f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $2/3 - 2/3l$.$k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

$k$ So, obvious question - what is proportionalthe constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to $n^2/l$, henceme to be $n^2$$\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Letting $l$ got to $0$Can this be improved, ideally all the probability goesway to $2/3$. So this shows that for $p=2/3-\epsilon$ we may take $ k \approx n^2$.$1$?

This showsstrongly suggests that $n^{1/r}$$1/(j-i)$ is notin fact the right upper boundweight function. Most likelyBasically, this can be improved somewhatlower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

I think we can do better. I will describe different strategies where the probability that $d_i > d_j$ depends only on $i-j$. Then by choosing a weighted average, we will give a lower bound for this probability greater than $1/2$, despite the fact that the length of the sequence is around $n^2$.

First, if $k \leq mn-m+1$, then we take $d_i = \lceil \frac{i+e}{m} \rceil$ for a random $e \in [0,\dots, m-1]$. Then if $j>i$, the probability that $d_j>d_i$ is $\min ( \frac{j-i}{m},1)$.

To complement it, we want a sequence where the probability that $d_j>d_i$ is close to $1$ for $j-i$ small. We can do the first part by setting $d_i = i+e$ mod $n$ for again a random $n$. However, it declines to $0$ for $j-i$ large, so the best we can get by averaging is $1/2$.

We will do better using more randomization to change the rate of growth. Fix a natural number $l$ and let $\alpha$ be a random real number in $[0,l]$ and $\beta$ a random real number in $[0,n]$. Define $d_i = \lfloor \alpha i + \beta \rfloor$ mod $n$. Then fixing $\alpha$, the probability that $d_j < d_i$

$$f ( \alpha (j-i) \mod n)$$

where $f(x)= (1-1/n) x$ for $x \in [0,1]$ and $1- x/n$ for $x \in [1,n]$.

So the relevant probability is:

$$ \frac{1}{l} \int_0^l f ( \alpha (j-i) \mod n)) d \alpha$$

The probability $\alpha(j-i)$ is in the interval $[0,1]$ modulo $n$, is clearly at most $1/l$. So we may replace $f(x)$ with $1-x/n$ and only lose $1/r$. Another way of writing $1 - \frac{ x \mod n}{n}$ is $1- \operatorname{frac} \left( \frac{x}{n} \right)$

$$ \int_0^l \left( 1- \operatorname{frac}\left(\frac{\alpha (j-i)}{n} \right) \right) d \alpha$$

Using the trivial bound $ \operatorname{frac}(x) \leq x$, this is $\geq 1 - \frac{l}{2}(j-i)$.

It is also easy to see that this is always at least $1/2$. This is because the average value of $1- \frac{x}$ on the whole interval $[0,1]$ is $1/2$, and the largest values come first, so averaging over any subinterval starting at $0$ produces a larger average.

So we have another strategy where the probability that $d_j-d_i$ is at least

$$\max( 1- \frac{l}{2} \frac{j-i}{n}, 1/2) - \frac{1}{l}$$.

Setting $m=n/r$, in our previous strategy the probability was at least:

$$\min( l \frac{j-i}{n}, 1) $$

Choosing a linear combination of $2/3$ this strategy and $1/3$ the previous, we get $2/3 - 2/3l$.

$k$ is proportional to $n^2/l$, hence to $n^2$. Letting $l$ got to $0$, the probability goes to $2/3$. So this shows that for $p=2/3-\epsilon$ we may take $ k \approx n^2$.

This shows that $n^{1/r}$ is not the right upper bound. Most likely this can be improved somewhat.

Suppose that I have two sequences of $k$ numbers, one of which is a sequence of numbers from $1$ to $n_1$ that is increasing with probability $r_1$, and one which is a sequence from $1$ to $n_2$ that is increasing with proobability $r_2$. For any fraction $a/b$, I can construct a sequence of $k^b$ numbers from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ that is increasing with probability $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$ as follows:

Write a number from $1$ to $k^b$ in base $k$ notation as $b$ numbers from $1$ to $k$. Choose randomly $a$ of the numbers and apply the first sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_1$. For the rest, apply the second sequence, getting a number from $1$ to $n_2$. Encode this sequence of numbers lexicographically as a single number from $1$ to $n_1^a n_2^{b-a}$ (generalizing base notation).

For any two numbers $i$ and $j$, consider the first place where they are not equal. In that place, $j$ must be larger than $i$. $d_j$ is equal to $d_i$ in all previous places. Hence as long as $d_j> d_i$ in this place, $d_j>d_i$. The probability that it is greater in this place is at least $r_1$ if this number was chosen and $r_2$ if it wasn't, so the total probability is at least $\frac{a}{b} r_1 + \frac{b-a}{b}r_2$.

This shows that we can take $k=n^{1/f(r)}$ for a convex function $f$. In particular, because we can take $f(1)=1$ (totally deterministic sequence) and $f(1/2-\epsilon)=0$ (totally random), we know $f(r) \leq 2r-1+\epsilon$, so we can get $k$ at least $n^{1/(2r-1)-\epsilon}$

So, obvious question - what is the constant in Terry Tao's bound? It seems to me to be $\pi \log 2 \approx 2.178$. Can this be improved, ideally all the way to $1$?

This strongly suggests that $1/(j-i)$ is in fact the right weight function. Basically, this lower bounding method (and also the previous one) spend an equal amount of work improving the probability that $d_j>d_i$ for $j-i$ at any given scale. So the weight function should make every scale equally valuable, which $1/(j-i)$ does.

(This method is simpler and more general than my previous method.)

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Will Sawin
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Will Sawin
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