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Noah Schweber
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EDIT: Given the change to the question, this answer is no longer relevant; I'm going to leave it up because it is worth comparing the OP to the "dual" version of the question.


Your paragraph beginning "using the same theorem . . ." is false: it is true that for any computably enumerable theory $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (or $T\supseteq$Robinson if you prefer) there is a polynomial $p$ with no root such that $T$ does not prove "$p$ has no root." However, by contrast:

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $\overline{n}$ is a root of $p(\overline{x})$, then we can use the axioms of arithmetic to show that $p(\overline{n})=0$ - plugging a specific value into a specific polynomial and evaluating is not something which takes logical strength! In the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

Your paragraph beginning "using the same theorem . . ." is false: it is true that for any computably enumerable theory $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (or $T\supseteq$Robinson if you prefer) there is a polynomial $p$ with no root such that $T$ does not prove "$p$ has no root." However, by contrast:

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $\overline{n}$ is a root of $p(\overline{x})$, then we can use the axioms of arithmetic to show that $p(\overline{n})=0$ - plugging a specific value into a specific polynomial and evaluating is not something which takes logical strength! In the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

EDIT: Given the change to the question, this answer is no longer relevant; I'm going to leave it up because it is worth comparing the OP to the "dual" version of the question.


Your paragraph beginning "using the same theorem . . ." is false: it is true that for any computably enumerable theory $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (or $T\supseteq$Robinson if you prefer) there is a polynomial $p$ with no root such that $T$ does not prove "$p$ has no root." However, by contrast:

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $\overline{n}$ is a root of $p(\overline{x})$, then we can use the axioms of arithmetic to show that $p(\overline{n})=0$ - plugging a specific value into a specific polynomial and evaluating is not something which takes logical strength! In the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

deleted 217 characters in body
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Noah Schweber
  • 20.5k
  • 10
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  • 331

Your paragraph beginning "using the same theorem . . ." is false: it is true that for any computably enumerable theory $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (or $T\supseteq$Robinson if you prefer) there is a polynomial $p$ with no root such that $T$ does not prove "$p$ has no root." However, by contrast:

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $p$ has$\overline{n}$ is a root of $p(\overline{x})$, then certainlywe can use the axioms of arithmetic to show that $T$ proves$p(\overline{n})=0$ $p$ has- plugging a root;specific value into a specific polynomial and inevaluating is not something which takes logical strength! In the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $p$ has a root then certainly $T$ proves $p$ has a root; and in the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

Your paragraph beginning "using the same theorem . . ." is false: it is true that for any computably enumerable theory $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (or $T\supseteq$Robinson if you prefer) there is a polynomial $p$ with no root such that $T$ does not prove "$p$ has no root." However, by contrast:

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $\overline{n}$ is a root of $p(\overline{x})$, then we can use the axioms of arithmetic to show that $p(\overline{n})=0$ - plugging a specific value into a specific polynomial and evaluating is not something which takes logical strength! In the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

deleted 217 characters in body
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Noah Schweber
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LetI claim that, as long as $T$ be an "appropriate" theory - this means $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$,contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T$ is strong enough to talk about Turing machines$T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (I'm almost certain containing Robinson arithmeticthat is enough, but I could be wrong, I don't know much about it$T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$. Then we have

To see this, just note that for any Turing machinepolynomial $\Phi_e$$p$, if $$\Phi_e(e)\text{ halts}\iff e\in 0'\iff T\vdash\text{"$\Phi_e(e)$ halts"}.$$ But the statement "$\Phi_e(e)$ halts" is equivalent mod$p$ has a root then certainly $T$ proves (in fact, mod Robinson arithmetic) to the existence of a root of$p$ has a polynomial $p_e$,root; and in the passage from $e$ toother direction, since $p_e$ is computable. So$T$ only contains true sentences, if $D_T$ were decidable,$T$ proves $0'$ would be computable$p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note thathow little we did nothad to assume thatabout $T$ was computably axiomatizable!.

Let $T$ be an "appropriate" theory - this means $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$, and $T$ is strong enough to talk about Turing machines (I'm almost certain containing Robinson arithmetic is enough, but I could be wrong, I don't know much about it). Then we have, for any Turing machine $\Phi_e$, $$\Phi_e(e)\text{ halts}\iff e\in 0'\iff T\vdash\text{"$\Phi_e(e)$ halts"}.$$ But the statement "$\Phi_e(e)$ halts" is equivalent mod $T$ (in fact, mod Robinson arithmetic) to the existence of a root of a polynomial $p_e$, and the passage from $e$ to $p_e$ is computable. So if $D_T$ were decidable, $0'$ would be computable.

Note that we did not assume that $T$ was computably axiomatizable!

I claim that, as long as $T$ contains the ordered semiring axioms and $T\subseteq Th(\mathbb{N})$ (that is, $T$ contains only true sentences), then $D_T=D_{Th(\mathbb{N})}$.

To see this, just note that for any polynomial $p$, if $p$ has a root then certainly $T$ proves $p$ has a root; and in the other direction, since $T$ only contains true sentences, if $T$ proves $p$ has a root then $p$ has a root.

So we are done.

Note how little we had to assume about $T$.

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Noah Schweber
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