Skip to main content
improved formatting
Source Link
Joel David Hamkins
  • 236.3k
  • 44
  • 777
  • 1.4k

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of size at most the same cardinality asof A (rather than the possibly, even when S is much larger S).

(I had thought about the case of cuts in The key to the rationals, thinking it might leadsolution is to realize that every such family S arises as the collection of downward-closed sets for a counterexamplecertain partial pre-order on A, which I shall define. Instead (Conversely, the solution there ledevery such order also leads to such a solution for all setsfamily.)

An interesting special case occurs when the family S is linearly ordered by inclusion. For example, and then I realizedone might consider the solutionfamily of cuts in the rational line, that is fully, downward-closed subsets of Q. (I had thought briefly at first that this might be a counterexample, but after solving it, I realized a general solution was possible by moving to partial orders.)

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. Such a family induces a naturalDefine the induced partial pre-order on A, namely, a <= b if whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. by

  • a <= b if whenever B in S and b in B, then also a in B.

It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b) = a if a <= b, and otherwise fa(b) = b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a <= b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of the same cardinality as A (rather than the possibly much larger S).

(I had thought about the case of cuts in the rationals, thinking it might lead to a counterexample. Instead, the solution there led to a solution for all sets S linearly ordered by inclusion, and then I realized the solution is fully general by moving to partial orders.)

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. Such a family induces a natural partial pre-order on A, namely, a <= b if whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b) = a if a <= b, and otherwise fa(b) = b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a <= b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, such a family can be found of size at most the cardinality of A, even when S is much larger.

The key to the solution is to realize that every such family S arises as the collection of downward-closed sets for a certain partial pre-order on A, which I shall define. (Conversely, every such order also leads to such a family.)

An interesting special case occurs when the family S is linearly ordered by inclusion. For example, one might consider the family of cuts in the rational line, that is, downward-closed subsets of Q. (I had thought briefly at first that this might be a counterexample, but after solving it, I realized a general solution was possible by moving to partial orders.)

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. Define the induced partial pre-order on A by

  • a <= b if whenever B in S and b in B, then also a in B.

It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b) = a if a <= b, and otherwise fa(b) = b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a <= b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

improved formatting
Source Link
Joel David Hamkins
  • 236.3k
  • 44
  • 777
  • 1.4k

The answer is Yes. Furthermore Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of the same cardinality as A (rather than the possibly much larger S).

I(I had thought first about the case of cuts in the rationals, andthinking it might lead to a counterexample. Instead, the solution theirthere led me to think abouta solution for all sets S that are linearly ordered by inclusion. Then, and then I realized that the solution is fully general by moving to partial pre-ordersorders.)

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. ThisSuch a family induces a natural partial pre-order on A, where a<=namely, a <= b iffif whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b)= = a if a<=ba <= b, and otherwise fa(b)=b = b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a<=ba <= b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of the same cardinality as A (rather than the possibly much larger S).

I had thought first about the case of cuts in the rationals, and the solution their led me to think about S that are linearly ordered by inclusion. Then, I realized that the solution is fully general by moving to partial pre-orders.

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. This induces a natural partial pre-order on A, where a<= b iff whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b)= a if a<=b, and otherwise fa(b)=b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a<=b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of the same cardinality as A (rather than the possibly much larger S).

(I had thought about the case of cuts in the rationals, thinking it might lead to a counterexample. Instead, the solution there led to a solution for all sets S linearly ordered by inclusion, and then I realized the solution is fully general by moving to partial orders.)

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. Such a family induces a natural partial pre-order on A, namely, a <= b if whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b) = a if a <= b, and otherwise fa(b) = b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a <= b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.

Source Link
Joel David Hamkins
  • 236.3k
  • 44
  • 777
  • 1.4k

The answer is Yes. Furthermore, when A is infinite, then such a family can be found of the same cardinality as A (rather than the possibly much larger S).

I had thought first about the case of cuts in the rationals, and the solution their led me to think about S that are linearly ordered by inclusion. Then, I realized that the solution is fully general by moving to partial pre-orders.

Suppose that S is such a collection of subsets of A. This induces a natural partial pre-order on A, where a<= b iff whenver B in S and b in B, then also a in B. It is easy to see that this relation is transitive and reflexive.

I claim, first, that S consists of exactly the subsets of A that are downward closed in this order. It is clear that every set in S is downward closed in this order. Conversely, suppose that X is downward closed with respect to <=. For any b in X, consider the set Xb, which the intersection of all sets in S containing b as an element. This is in S. Also, Xb consists of precisely of the predecessors of b with respect to <=. So Xb subset X. Thus, X is the union of the Xb for b in X. So X is in S.

Next, define fa(b)= a if a<=b, and otherwise fa(b)=b. Let F be the family of all such functions fa for a in A.

Clearly, every B in S is closed under every fa, by the definition of <=. Conversely, suppose that X is closed under all fa. Thus, whenever b is in X and a<=b, then a is in X also. So X is downward closed, and hence by the claim above, X is in S.

Incidently, the sets S are exactly the open sets in the topology on A induced by the lower cones of <=.