# Is it (believed to be) possible to algorithmically generate Diffie-Hellman tuples without “being able to know” one of the discrete logs involved (formal definition given in question)?

Is it (believed to be) possible, in the various standard examples of groups in which discrete log/Diffie Hellman are hard (including multiplicative groups in modular arithmetic and elliptic curves, and including cases in which Decisional Diffie Hellman is easy) to generate tuples of the form $(g, g^a, g^b, g^{ab})$ without in a sense "knowing" either a or b?

More formally, if there is a polynomial-time Turing machine $T(G, c)$ such that $T$ maps any input into such a tuple in the group described by $G$ ($G$ could just be a modulus if this is a modular multiplicative group, and $c$ could be thought of as random bits), must there exist a polynomial-time $T'$ such that $T'$, with the same input as $T$, outputs $(g, g^a, g^b, g^{ab}, a)$ or $(g, g^a, g^b, g^{ab}, b)$?

Clearly, the answer to this question is not known since there is always such a $T'$ if discrete log is easy and there is is a $T$ without such a $T'$ if Diffie Hellman is easy and discrete log is hard. I'm particularly interested in whether there is some existence result that says there must be a $T$ with no such $T'$ (under an assumption like hardness of discrete log), or whether there is a general conjecture that such a $T'$ always exists (or better yet, that this is implied by some other, widely believed, conjecture).

Cross-post from CSTheory stackexchange: http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/8245/generating-a-diffie-hellman-tuple-without-being-able-to-know-one-of-the-discret

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