3
$\begingroup$

For $n>2$, are there norms $\parallel.\parallel_{a}$ and $\parallel.\parallel_{b}$ on $M_{n}(\mathbb{R})$ with the following property:

$A\in M_{n}(\mathbb{R})$ is singular if and only if $\parallel A \parallel_{a}=\parallel A \parallel_{b}$

For $n=2,\;$ these norms are $\parallel A \parallel_{a}=\sqrt{\sum a_{ij}^{2}}$ and $\parallel A \parallel_{b}=\parallel.\parallel_{op}$, the operator norm.

$\endgroup$
7
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ I would try with $\|A\|_a = \left(\sum_{i=1}^{n} \sigma_i^2 \right)^{1/2}$ and $\|A\|_b = \left(\sum_{i=1}^{n-1} \sigma_i^2 \right)^{1/2}$, where the $\sigma_i$ are the singular values of $A$ in decreasing order. These should be generalizations of the Schatten norms, and $\|A\|_a$ defined like this coincides with the one that you have defined $\|A\|_a = \sqrt{\sum a_{ij}^2}$ (Frobenius norm). $\endgroup$ Feb 19, 2015 at 12:46
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_value_decomposition#Ky_Fan_norms $\endgroup$ Feb 19, 2015 at 12:50
  • $\begingroup$ @FedericoPoloni thank you for your comment. $\endgroup$ Feb 19, 2015 at 13:02
  • $\begingroup$ @MikaeldelaSalle thank you for your comment. with combination of your two interesting comment I got my answer. $\endgroup$ Feb 19, 2015 at 13:03
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @MikaeldelaSalle One of us should probably write this as an answer, so that this question does not keep getting bumped as unanswered. Want to do it, since you provided the most useful link? $\endgroup$ Feb 19, 2015 at 15:36

1 Answer 1

7
$\begingroup$

(This answer expands the ideas in the comments by Mikael de la Salle and myself).

There is a family of matrix norms that can be defined as follows: given $p \geq 1,k \leq n$, $$ \|A\|_{p,k} = \left(\sum_{i=1}^k \sigma_i(A)^p\right)^{1/p}, $$ where we denote by $\sigma_i(A)$ the $i$th singular value of $A$ (taken in nonincreasing order, $\sigma_1(A)\geq \sigma_2(A)\geq \dots$). The most famous examples are the Schatten norms ($k=n$) and the Ky Fan norms ($p=1$), but they are matrix norms for each $k$ and $p$ (see e.g. this blog post by Nathaniel Johnston and the references included in it).

A $n\times n$ matrix $A$ is singular iff $\sigma_n(A)=0$, and this is equivalent to $\|A_{p,n}\|=\|A_{p,n-1}\|$ for every $p$. So any pair of norms with $k=n$ and $k=n-1$ works.

$\endgroup$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.