When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? - MathOverflow most recent 30 from http://mathoverflow.net 2013-05-22T09:58:04Z http://mathoverflow.net/feeds/question/9073 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Colin Tan 2009-12-16T04:21:06Z 2011-05-10T00:40:08Z <p>Does anyone have examples of when an object is positive, then it has (or does not have) a square root? Or more generally, can be written as a sum of squares?</p> <p>Example. A positive integer does not have a square root, but is the sum of at most 4 squares. (Lagrange Theorem). However, a real positive number has a square root.</p> <p>Another Example. A real quadratic form that is postive definite (or semi-definite) is, after a change of coordinates, a sum of squares. How about rational or integral quadratic forms?</p> <p>Last Example. A positive definite (or semidefinite) real or complex matrix has a square root. How about rational or integral matrices?</p> <p>Do you have other examples?</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9075#9075 Answer by Michael Lugo for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Michael Lugo 2009-12-16T04:54:37Z 2009-12-16T04:54:37Z <p>For many examples of this kind, see Olga Taussky, "Sums of squares", <i>Amer. Math. Monthly</i> 77 (1970) 805-830.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9078#9078 Answer by Jonas Meyer for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Jonas Meyer 2009-12-16T05:15:40Z 2009-12-16T05:15:40Z <p>An element of $\mathbb{R}[x]$ is a sum of two squares if it is nonnegative as a function on $\mathbb{R}$. This can be seen by noting that its real roots have even multiplicity, its irreducible quadratic factors are of the form $(x-a)^2+b^2$, a product of sums of two squares is a sum of two squares, and a square times a sum of two squares is a sum of two squares.</p> <p>See <a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/8579/are-all-polynomial-inequalities-deducible-from-the-trivial-inequality" rel="nofollow">Qiaochu's question on Hilbert's 17th problem</a> for what happens in more than one variable.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9086#9086 Answer by Pete L. Clark for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Pete L. Clark 2009-12-16T07:03:39Z 2009-12-16T07:03:39Z <p>I think your question lives most naturally in the category of ordered rings.</p> <p>Here is one example: a field can be ordered iff it is formally real: i.e., iff -1 is <em>not</em> a sum of squares. However, more is true: if x is any element of a field K of characteristic different from 2 which is not a sum of squares, then there exists an ordering &lt; on K in which x is negative. Thus any field which admits more than one ordering will have positive elements which are not sums of squares. For example, in Q(\sqrt{2}), with the usual convention, \sqrt{2} is positive, but it is not a sum of squares, because in a different ordering (here, an adjustment of the given ordering by a field automorphism!) it is negative.</p> <p>Another Example: No, a positive definite rational or integral quadratic form need not be equivalent to a sum of squares. For instance the quadratic forms x^2 + y^2 and x^2 + 2y^2 are not equivalent over Q. For one thing, the discriminant of the quadratic form (= the product of the coefficients, for a diagonal quadratic form) is well-determined up to a square in the ground field. So it comes back to the fact that in R, every positive number is a square, but not in Q. </p> <p>For matrices: look at the 1x1 case! </p> <p>As was alluded to before, another case of this is Hilbert's 17th problem: let K be an ordered field with real closure R. (For simplicity just take K = R = real numbers!) Let f in K(x_1,..,x_n) be a rational function such that for all (a_1,...,a_n) in R^n at which f is defined, f(a_1,...,a_n) >= 0. Then there are rational functions g_1,l..,g_m in K(x_1,...,x_n) such that f = g_1^2 + ... + g_m^2. </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9107#9107 Answer by jvp for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? jvp 2009-12-16T14:06:03Z 2009-12-16T14:06:03Z <p>There is <a href="http://people.virginia.edu/~jlr5m/Papers/FejerRiesz.pdf" rel="nofollow">Fejér-Riesz Theorem</a>: a nonnegative trigonometric polynomial can be expressed as the square of the norm of a complex polynomial.</p> <p>Fejér-Riesz Theorem generalizes from trigonometric polynomials to integrable functions as Szegö’s Theorem.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9156#9156 Answer by Christos for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Christos 2009-12-17T06:17:40Z 2009-12-17T06:17:40Z <p>I believe <a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9089/what-was-hilberts-geometric-construction-in-his-17th-problem" rel="nofollow">another recent question</a> contains an answer: </p> <blockquote> <p>Hilbert's 17th problem asked if a nonnegative real polynomial is the sum of squares of rational functions. It was answered affirmative by Artin in around 1920. </p> </blockquote> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/9160#9160 Answer by David Bar Moshe for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? David Bar Moshe 2009-12-17T07:56:32Z 2010-10-14T14:07:42Z <p>The existence of the $[r, s, n]$ sum of square formula:</p> <p>$(x_1^2+ \ldots +x_r^2) \cdot (y_1^2+ \ldots +y_s^2) = (z_1^2+ \ldots +z_n^2)$</p> <p>is related to the existence of an axial map of projective spaces:</p> <p>$P^{r - 1} \times P^{s-1} \to P^{n-1}$</p> <p>There is a recent work extending this formula to some fields of non-zero characteristic:</p> <p><a href="http://www.uoregon.edu/~ddugger/ksum.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.uoregon.edu/~ddugger/ksum.pdf</a></p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/22304#22304 Answer by Jan Weidner for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Jan Weidner 2010-04-23T05:53:34Z 2010-04-23T09:24:17Z <p>For $x$ a self adjoint element of a $C^*$ algebra it is equivalent:</p> <ol> <li>$x$ has non negative spectrum</li> <li>$x$ has a self adjoint square root $x=y^2$</li> <li>$x$ is a finite sum of squares $x=\sum {a_i}^*a_i$</li> </ol> <p>in this case $x$ is indeed called positive.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/42140#42140 Answer by Denis Serre for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Denis Serre 2010-10-14T12:41:44Z 2010-10-14T12:41:44Z <p>Let $f:(a,b)\rightarrow{\mathbb R}$ be a function. If $f(x)=g(x)^2$, then $f$ is non-negative and inherits the regularity of $g$. Conversely, let us assume that $f\ge0$ and $f\in{\mathcal C}^k$. What can be said about a square root $g$ ?</p> <p>If $f$ is ${\mathcal C}^2$, then $f$ admits a ${\mathcal C}^1$ square root (T. Mandai, 1985). If $f$ is ${\mathcal C}^4$, then $f$ admits a twice differentiable square root $g$ (Alekseevskiĭ et al., 1988). However, $g$ might not be ${\mathcal C}^2$ (Bony et al., 2006).</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/51638#51638 Answer by Tony Carbery for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Tony Carbery 2011-01-10T10:45:21Z 2011-01-10T10:45:21Z <p>A very nice example, due to Motzkin, found I think after the publication of Taussky's American Math. Monthly paper referred to in the answer by Michael Lugo, is</p> <p>$$x^2y^4 + x^4y^2 +1 - 3 x^2y^2$$</p> <p>which can also be written as</p> <p>$$\frac{x^2y^2(x^2 + y^4 -2)^2(x^2 + y^2 +1) +(x^2 - y^2)^2} {(x^2 + y^2)^2},$$</p> <p>yet is not a sum of squares of polynomials. (I learnt this example in a talk by K. Schmudgen.)</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/64418#64418 Answer by Amir Ali Ahmadi for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Amir Ali Ahmadi 2011-05-09T18:01:13Z 2011-05-09T18:01:13Z <p>One other case that seems to be missing from the comments above (but most likely not from the references in there) is the 1888 result of Hilbert that all nonnegative ternary quartic forms (and bivariate quartic polynomials) are sums of squares of polynomials.</p> <p>Of the same flavor of the type of questions you have raised, it is an open problem to determine if a polynomial with rational coefficients that is a sum of squares of polynomials (with possibly real coefficients) can also be written as a sum of squares of polynomials with rational coefficients. See e.g. Section 3 of <a href="http://www.msri.org/people/members/chillar/files/rationallmisos.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.msri.org/people/members/chillar/files/rationallmisos.pdf</a></p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/64439#64439 Answer by Nate Eldredge for When does 'positive' imply 'sum of squares'? Nate Eldredge 2011-05-10T00:40:08Z 2011-05-10T00:40:08Z <p>As has been pointed out in <a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9073/when-does-positive-imply-sum-of-squares/51638#51638" rel="nofollow">Tony Carbery's answer</a>, a positive polynomial over $\mathbb{R}$ in two or more variables need not be a sum of squares. However, Bill Helton showed in 2002 that this <em>does</em> hold for polynomials in noncommuting variables!</p> <p>Helton, J. William. "Positive'' noncommutative polynomials are sums of squares. Ann. of Math. (2) 156 (2002), no. 2, 675–694. <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/3597203" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstor.org/stable/3597203</a>.</p>