nonstandard set theories - MathOverflow most recent 30 from http://mathoverflow.net 2013-05-24T04:57:27Z http://mathoverflow.net/feeds/question/6541 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6541/nonstandard-set-theories nonstandard set theories david karapetyan 2009-11-23T07:55:59Z 2009-11-24T04:03:31Z <p>Does anyone know of good references for nonstandard set theories and their applications to various branches of mathematics like category theory, algebra, geometry, etc.?</p> <p>Edit: What I mean by "nonstandard set theory" is a formalization of the naive notion of sets that allows direct arguments about certain intuitive notions like infinitesimals and infinite integers without recourse to model theoretic constructions like ultrafilters and ultraproducts. Infinitesimal number is the usual application I keep seeing but I'm sure there must be other applications and that's the intent of my question. I'm not sure if this is precise enough.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6541/nonstandard-set-theories/6546#6546 Answer by Yemon Choi for nonstandard set theories Yemon Choi 2009-11-23T08:47:44Z 2009-11-23T08:47:44Z <p>In repsonse to your edited question: does the n-Lab page on <a href="http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/internal+set" rel="nofollow">internal sets</a> help? It sounds like Nelson's approach might be along the lines you want.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6541/nonstandard-set-theories/6569#6569 Answer by Jason Dyer for nonstandard set theories Jason Dyer 2009-11-23T14:02:44Z 2009-11-23T16:00:40Z <p>This is not what I would call "nonstandard", but you may be interested in surreal numbers. They were originally developed for combinatoric game theory but they allow somewhat unique circumstances in treating infinity and infinitesimals; like the paper below explains, using surreal numbers you can discuss "the square root of infinity" without it being complete nonsense.</p> <p><a href="http://www.tondering.dk/claus/surreal.html" rel="nofollow">Link to fairly good introduction</a></p> <p>Here's an brief summary:</p> <ol> <li><p>A surreal number is a pair of sets of surreal numbers L (the "left set") and R (the "right set") such that no member of R is less than or equal to any member of L. Traditionally the numbers are written { L | R }.</p></li> <li><p>Given surreal numbers x and y, $x \leq y$ if and only if y is less than or equal to no member of x’s left set, and no member of y’s right set is less than or equal to x.</p></li> <li><p>We define the surreal number {|} to be 0.</p></li> </ol> <p>These definitions (along with logical ones for addition, subtraction, etc.) spin out an entire number system, and it ends up that one version of $\epsilon$ is {0 | 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, ...} and one version of $\omega$ is {$\mathbb{Z}$ | 0}.</p> <p>While having infinity and infinitesimals as actual numbers in the system sounds like a good deal, it makes integration or differentation hard (I don't believe anyone has yet found a method).</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6541/nonstandard-set-theories/6571#6571 Answer by Steven Gubkin for nonstandard set theories Steven Gubkin 2009-11-23T14:19:39Z 2009-11-23T14:19:39Z <p>I think you are really asking about using toposes (or topoi (take your pick)) in place of one of your standard set theories. I am new to this stuff, but Mac Lane and Moerdijk's "Sheaves in Geometry and Logic" gives a very good introduction to thinking this way. As far as using infinitesmals go, I would really recommend Anders Kock's Synthetic Differential Geometry, available on his website for free: <a href="http://home.imf.au.dk/kock/" rel="nofollow">http://home.imf.au.dk/kock/</a>.</p> <p>The point is that toposes have their own internal logic, and you can reason about them as if they were a universe of sets in that logic. As the intuitionist try to tell us, the mathematical universe CAN look a lot nicer and more regular without the axiom of choice, and without excluded middle, so it is possible to construct toposes which have a lot less pathology than the ordinary universe of sets. These toposes can then support things like infinitesmals. </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6541/nonstandard-set-theories/6628#6628 Answer by Denis-Charles Cisinski for nonstandard set theories Denis-Charles Cisinski 2009-11-23T22:11:20Z 2009-11-23T22:11:20Z <p>It seems that Lars Brünjes and Christian Serpé have a whole program for introducing non standard mathematics in algebraic geometry; they wish to play with non standard contructions, seen internally and externally (the interest of this game consists precisely to look at the non-classical logic (or internal) point of view and at the classical (or external) one at the same time). For instance, for an infinite prime number $P$, the ring $\mathbf{Z}/P\mathbf{Z}$ behaves internally like a finite field, while externally, it is a field of characteristic zero which contains an algebraic closure of $\mathbf{Q}$. Non-standard constructions can often be interpreted in a precise way as standard ones using ultraproducts and ultrafilters. Their purpose is to develop all the tools of classical algebraic geometry (homotopical and homological algebra, stacks, étale cohomology, algebraic K-theory, higher Chow groups...) in a non-standard way, in order to prove facts in the classical setting. Most of their papers can be found <a href="http://wwwmath.uni-muenster.de/u/serpe/arbeiten-en.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> (their papers contains more precise ideas on the possible interpretations and explanations). Brünjes and Serpé see non-standard mathematics as an enlargement of standard mathematics, and their work deals a lot in making this precise. However, they seem to have quite few concrete problems in mind. For instance, they have found sufficient conditions on cohomology classes to be algebraic in a very classical sense (see arXiv:0901.4853).</p>