How fast are a ruler and compass? - MathOverflow most recent 30 from http://mathoverflow.net 2013-05-19T18:52:48Z http://mathoverflow.net/feeds/question/32986 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass How fast are a ruler and compass? John Watrous 2010-07-22T18:06:18Z 2013-04-25T20:41:12Z <p>This may be more of a recreational mathematics question than a research question, but I have wondered about it for a while. I hope it is not inappropriate for MO.</p> <p>Consider the standard assumptions for ruler and compass constructions: We have an infinitely large sheet of paper, which we associate with the complex plane, that is initially blank aside from the points 0 and 1 being marked. In addition we have an infinite ruler and a compass that can be stretched to an arbitrary length.</p> <p>Let us define a <em>move</em> to be one of the two actions normally associated with a ruler and compass:</p> <ol> <li>Use the ruler to draw the line defined by any two distinct points already marked on the paper.</li> <li>Stretch the compass from any one marked point to another and draw the resulting circle.</li> </ol> <p>Assume that all intersection points among lines and circles drawn by these operations are automatically marked on the paper. </p> <p>Now define $D(n)$ to be the maximum distance between any two marked points that can be constructed in this way with $n$ moves.</p> <p>Questions:</p> <ol> <li>Is anyone aware of results about the function $D(n)$ or something equivalent?</li> <li>It is not difficult to prove $D(n) > 2^{2^{cn}}$ for some positive constant $c$ for sufficiently large $n$. Can one do better? If so, can one prove an upper bound on $D(n)$?</li> </ol> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/32992#32992 Answer by lhf for How fast are a ruler and compass? lhf 2010-07-22T18:59:46Z 2010-07-23T11:23:49Z <p>I'm not sure but perhaps the classic <em>Géométrographie</em> by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Lemoine" rel="nofollow">Lemoine</a> discusses this space complexity as well as time complexity. See also <a href="http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~sqrt/cons/constructions.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~sqrt/cons/constructions.html</a> and <a href="http://geometrographie.org/" rel="nofollow">http://geometrographie.org/</a> .</p> <p>I think I once saw a paper about space complexity but I can't find it right now.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/33013#33013 Answer by Igor Pak for How fast are a ruler and compass? Igor Pak 2010-07-22T21:39:38Z 2010-07-22T21:39:38Z <p>I just recently posted <a href="http://www.math.msu.su/~fpm/eng/k01/k012/k01216h.htm" rel="nofollow">this link</a> as an answer to <a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/30631/computability-and-geometry" rel="nofollow">this MO question</a>. Is this what you want? </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/33034#33034 Answer by Terry Tao for How fast are a ruler and compass? Terry Tao 2010-07-23T03:09:48Z 2010-07-23T03:26:49Z <p>Up to constant factors (i.e. replacing n by cn), the question is equivalent (up to constant factors) to asking what is the largest number that can be generated by an arithmetic circuit of complexity n using 0, 1, the arithmetic operations +, -, *, /, and the square root operation, since each ruler-and-compass operation can be modeled by a circuit of complexity O(1) (and vice versa), basically because of the quadratic formula.</p> <p><strike>It then seems to me from induction that the numbers one generates after n steps must be algebraic numbers of degree growing at most exponentially in n, and height growing at most double exponentially in n, which matches the lower bound mentioned in the post.</strike></p> <p>EDIT: Actually, the naive bounds are worse than I first thought. Taking square roots and reciprocals (or negation) is not a problem, but adding or multiplying two algebraic numbers can square the degree and raise the heights to a power comparable to the degree (using resultants etc.) That only gives us a double exponential bound on the degree and a triple exponential bound on the height, so there is a gap of one exponential between the easy upper and lower bounds... </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/33038#33038 Answer by Richard Borcherds for How fast are a ruler and compass? Richard Borcherds 2010-07-23T04:03:15Z 2010-07-23T04:03:15Z <p>According to this paper (MR0949111 Davenport, James H. Heintz, Joos Real quantifier elimination is doubly exponential. J. Symbolic Comput. 5 (1988), no. 1-2, 29--35) the problem of deciding the truth of a question in the theory of real closed fields (a slight extension of Euclidean geometry) is doubly exponential: the time needed to decide the truth of a sentence of length n can be as much as 2^2^cn, and I think there is an algorithm to do it in this time. This is about the same as the bound for D(n) given in the question. I have a sort of hunch that the 2 bounds may be related, but I can't offhand see a direct connection between them. </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/33857#33857 Answer by Tsuyoshi Ito for How fast are a ruler and compass? Tsuyoshi Ito 2010-07-29T21:44:11Z 2010-07-31T18:16:31Z <p><em>Edit on July 31: Now the upper bound is tight (up to replacing n by O(n)). The improvement over the older version is in the argument after Lemma 1. Now we consider the Weil absolute logarithmic height of an algebraic number instead of the length.</em></p> <p>Here is a proof that D(n) &lt; 2<sup>2<sup>cn</sup></sup> for some positive constant c&gt;0 for sufficiently large n. In other words, the answer to the “can one do better” part of the question 2 is negative.</p> <p>As Terry Tao pointed out, this problem can be rephrased in the algebraic form. We have z<sub>0</sub>=0 and z<sub>1</sub>=1, and any z<sub>n</sub> (n≥2) can be obtained from earlier numbers by addition, subtraction, multiplication, division or square root. The claim follows if |z<sub>n</sub>| &lt; 2<sup>2<sup>O(n)</sup></sup>.</p> <p><strong>Lemma 1</strong>: The degree of z<sub>n</sub> over ℚ is at most 2<sup>n</sup>.</p> <p>Proof: Let F<sub>n</sub>=ℚ(z<sub>0</sub>, …, z<sub>n</sub>) be the minimum field containing ℚ∪{z<sub>0</sub>, …, z<sub>n</sub>}. Then F<sub>0</sub>=ℚ, and F<sub>n</sub> is either equal to F<sub>n−1</sub> or an extension of F<sub>n−1</sub> obtained by adjoining a square root. Since adjoining a square root of a non-square element gives an extension of degree 2, the extension degree [F<sub>n</sub>:F<sub>n−1</sub>] is either 1 or 2. By the degree formula, it holds that [F<sub>n</sub>:ℚ] = [F<sub>n</sub>:F<sub>0</sub>] = [F<sub>n</sub>:F<sub>n−1</sub>][F<sub>n−1</sub>:F<sub>n−2</sub>]…[F<sub>1</sub>:F<sub>0</sub>] ≤ 2<sup>n</sup>. Therefore, the degree of every element in F<sub>n</sub> over ℚ is also at most 2<sup>n</sup>. (end of proof of Lemma 1)</p> <p>There is a function called the <em>Weil absolute logarithmic height</em> h(α) defined on algebraic numbers α which takes nonnegative real values. See Section 3.2 of [Wal00] for its definition and the proof of the following properties:</p> <ol> <li>If α is an algebraic number of degree d, then |α| ≤ exp(dh(α)).</li> <li>If p and q are integers which are relatively prime, then h(p/q) = ln max{|p|,|q|}.</li> <li>If α and β are algebraic numbers, then h(α+β) ≤ h(α) + h(β) + ln 2.</li> <li>If α and β are algebraic numbers, then h(αβ) ≤ h(α) + h(β).</li> <li>If α is an algebraic number and n is an integer, then h(α<sup>n</sup>) = |n|h(α). In particular, h(√α)=h(α)/2.</li> </ol> <p>By using the properties 2–5 and the mathematical induction, we can prove that h(z<sub>n</sub>) ≤ 2<sup>n</sup> ln 2. By combining the property 1 and Lemma 1, we obtain that |z<sub>n</sub>| ≤ 2<sup>2<sup>2n</sup></sup>.</p> <p>References</p> <p>[Wal00] Michel Waldschmidt: <em>Diophantine Approximation on Linear Algebraic Groups: Transcendence Properties of the Exponential Function in Several Variables</em>, Springer, 2000.</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32986/how-fast-are-a-ruler-and-compass/33935#33935 Answer by Steve for How fast are a ruler and compass? Steve 2010-07-30T19:29:10Z 2010-07-30T19:29:10Z <p>Here is a construction showing that $D(n) \ge 2^{2^{n-O(1)}}$. This shows that any constant $c&lt;1$ in the original question can be achieved for sufficiently large $n$. The construction assumes some fixed (but arbitrary) positive integer $m$.</p> <ol> <li><p>Using a constant number of moves, draw both the real and imaginary axes, and mark the points $A = -i$ and $B = -1$. Let $z_0 = 1$.</p></li> <li><p>For $k = 1,2,3,\ldots,m$, do</p></li> </ol> <p>a) If $k$ is odd, then draw a circle centered at $A$ and passing through $z_{k-1}$. Let $z_k$ be the intersection of this circle with the positive imaginary axis.</p> <p>b) If $k$ is even, then draw a circle centered at $B$ and passing through $z_{k-1}$. Let $z_k$ be the intersection of this circle with the positive real axis.</p> <ol> <li>Using a constant number of moves, construct the reciprocal of $|z_m|$.</li> </ol> <p>Some things to observe:</p> <ol> <li>Step 2 uses exactly $m$ moves, so the total number of moves is $n = m + O(1)$.</li> <li>$z_k > 0$ for all even $k$, and $-iz_k > 0$ for all odd $k$.</li> <li>For all $k\in{1,\ldots,m}$, we have $|z_k| = \sqrt{1+|z_{k-1}|^2}-1 \le |z_{k-1}|^2/2$.</li> <li>The previous fact combined with induction on $k$ gives $|z_k| \le 2^{-(2^k-1)}$.</li> <li>Thus the point constructed in Step 3 has norm at least $2^{2^m-1} \ge 2^{2^{n-O(1)}}$.</li> </ol>