Good examples of random variables whose image is not a measurable set? - MathOverflow most recent 30 from http://mathoverflow.net 2013-05-20T02:49:55Z http://mathoverflow.net/feeds/question/120238 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://mathoverflow.net/questions/120238/good-examples-of-random-variables-whose-image-is-not-a-measurable-set Good examples of random variables whose image is not a measurable set? Uwe Franz 2013-01-29T18:06:50Z 2013-02-01T06:50:16Z <p>Are their simple/natural examples of real-valued Borel-measurable random variables whose image is not a Borel set? Something that occurs "naturally"?</p> <p>I am teaching Doob's lemma (for two real-valued random variables $X$ and $Y$, $X$ is $\sigma(Y)$-measurable iff there exists a Borel-measurable function $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ such that $X=f(Y)$) and the main difficulty in the proof comes from the fact that $Y(\Omega)$ is in general not a Borel set. So I am wondering if there is a "natural" example that I can use to convince 4th year students that this "pathology" can naturally come up.</p> <p>It is easy to construct examples, e.g., choose $A\subseteq \mathbb{R}$ any set that is not a Borel set, and equip it with the $\sigma$-algebra $\mathcal{A}=\{A\cap B; B\in \mathcal{B}(\mathbb{R})\}$, where $\mathcal{B}(\mathbb{R})$ denotes the $\sigma$-algebra of Borel sets in $\mathbb{R}$. Then the inclusion $X:(A,\mathcal{A})\to (\mathbb{R},\mathcal{B}(\mathbb{R}))$ is measurable and has $A$ as image, so its image is not a Borel set. But this feels like cheating...</p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/120238/good-examples-of-random-variables-whose-image-is-not-a-measurable-set/120244#120244 Answer by Pietro Majer for Good examples of random variables whose image is not a measurable set? Pietro Majer 2013-01-29T18:45:10Z 2013-01-30T11:35:24Z <p>I like this example, which is as natural as can be an example with sets that are not Lebesgue measurable. Start from the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_function" rel="nofollow">Cantor function</a> $f:[0,1]\rightarrow \mathbb{R}$, and consider $h(x):= x+f(x)$, which is a homeomorphism $[0,1]\rightarrow[0,2]$. On each interval on the complement of the Cantor set $C$ this functions is a translation. Therefore $|h([0,1]\setminus C)|=|[0,1]\setminus C|=1$. Thus $|h(C)|=|[0,2]\setminus h([0,1]\setminus C)|=1$. So there exists a non measurable subset $V$ of $h(C)$; let $W$ be $h^{-1}(V)\subset C$. Finally, the homeomorphism $h$ maps this Lebesgue measurable set $W$ into the non-measurable set $V$. </p> <p>Also note that any Lebesgue, non Borel set in $h(C)$ is mapped by the homeomorphism $h^{-1}$ into a Lebesgue, non Borel subset of $C$. </p> http://mathoverflow.net/questions/120238/good-examples-of-random-variables-whose-image-is-not-a-measurable-set/120249#120249 Answer by Gerald Edgar for Good examples of random variables whose image is not a measurable set? Gerald Edgar 2013-01-29T19:25:13Z 2013-01-29T19:25:13Z <p>An analytic set that is not a Borel set...see <a href="http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/97/measure" rel="nofollow">this post</a> from long ago.</p> <p>Such an analytic set is a continuous image of $[0,1] \setminus \mathbb Q$, and thus a Borel image of $[0,1]$.</p>